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mangas vs. novels

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RE: mangas vs. novels

Postby KeroGero » Sun 10.23.2005 4:21 pm

So, when you say "manga" you really mean "comic books", for reading in general. Yes, they're same thing, I know. But people tend to associate the word "manga" with "Japanese" and "comic" with "North Americian".

While I agree that comics should not be judged for simply being what they are, it generally takes alot more imagination to read a novel. A comic gives you pretty pictures to look at, while a novel has you create those images yourself. I think that's one of the main reasons Comics are shunned by teachers, they don't give ther mind as much exercise. The other main reason is that the more popular comics tend to be kind of, well, brainless.

You need to prove that comics can be just as good as novels for plot, maybe show some examples. Dragon Ball is not going to help your case, because it's mostly pages and pages of "Oh yeah? Well, I'm gonna do this!" "Oh yeah? Well, I'm only using 23.62% of my power! Take THIS!" etc. Try something with a deep involving plot.

Also, don't try to prove that one is BETTER than the other, because that's all a matter of opinion, and really, both have pros and cons. Some great stories can only work in one format.
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RE: mangas vs. novels

Postby Narutofan » Mon 10.24.2005 4:04 pm

I don't have that much of an imagination so that's why i guess i'm saying that a manga is better....but even if one novel would count as 2 mangas it would be better because it gives you a break from having to think so much in the day, because coming home from school you do your homework and than you want to relax. If you go straight to reading, sometimes it can be relaxing but for me i have 3 little brothers so it's just a pain to find a spot where i feel isolated and just sit there and just do nothing. Sometimes the books get really boring and my mind just start to wander from some text that i read.
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RE: mangas vs. novels

Postby Narutofan » Mon 10.24.2005 6:22 pm

bump
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RE: mangas vs. novels

Postby Narutofan » Mon 10.24.2005 8:59 pm

bump
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RE: mangas vs. novels

Postby Infidel » Mon 10.24.2005 11:40 pm

It's generally impolite to bump.
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RE: mangas vs. novels

Postby nprz » Tue 10.25.2005 12:44 am

Do you bump the thread to increase your post count or what? People are probably not responding because either 1) they aren't online 2) they have nothing to add to your topic.

Now that you have clarified that it isn't specific with language (ie, reading comics in Japanese vs. reading a novel in japanese), I would like to say that novels will work your imagination a lot more than looking at pictures. If you say you have little imagination, it is probably because you read few novels and instead watch too much TV (or any other form of visual stimulation). The solution to that is to read some novels. It will also most likely improve your vocabulary, because comics usually only contain dialogue while novels paint a vivid picture of everything through their description.

I would probably only support reading manga if you are reading it in Japanese but even then, it won't teach you proper grammar which is essential to learning.

I think your teacher has you beat.
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RE: mangas vs. novels

Postby Kates » Tue 10.25.2005 11:56 am

I can think of very few comics/graphic novels that are WORTHY of being taught in a classroom. And I'm a certified English teacher, and a comic-lover. To be honest, I DID come up with a lesson plan for an English class to work with the graphic novel Nausicaa by Miyazaki Hayao. My mentor teacher was interested in doing it as well, but we didn't have time, or the resources to get 30 copies of the first part of the story.

I don't think there's anything wrong with reading manga/comics. During reading time in a classroom, I don't think kids should be discouraged from reading comics--there are so many issues with alliteracy in American schools these days that a child reading ANYTHING would make me happy.

However, replacing, say, a Charles Dickens novel with a Neil Gaiman Sandman, though it has won literary awards, really doesn't make any sense to me. But I'm curious, Narutofan, what comic you would want to see in your classroom and why you think it's worthy of a place there.
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RE: mangas vs. novels

Postby Narutofan » Tue 10.25.2005 4:05 pm

i think that any manga with a story line that is a close to real life as it can get...Like in Death Note a very smart high school students finds this book outside and it says that if you write a name in it than the person will die in 40 seconds. This story could happen... you just have to believe it could... This is where you can take part in your imagination... believeing somthing could happen, when scientifically it really couldn't ever happen...

I'm still reading mangas so it's hard to state which ones should belong in classrooms.

Yes manga written in dialect but it still can help you in grammer... How people talk in mangas is most likely how it should be written when writing an essay.

I say bump to draw more attention... any time somebody new adds a reply to the thread it goes into the Newest threads and if i bump it than i hopefully draw more attention to it.... it worked didn't it:D
Last edited by Narutofan on Tue 10.25.2005 4:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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RE: mangas vs. novels

Postby Kates » Tue 10.25.2005 6:23 pm

Just because you think DeathNote is interesting doesn't make it a good work of literature to STUDY in school. What about DeathNote makes it a remarkable work of literature? Just because something in a book could happen in real life doesn't make it a great one. I mean, if that were true, then the Lord of the Rings trilogy wouldn't be one of the world's most widely-read novels, now would it?

And the way characters 'talk' in manga is NOT the kind of Japanese you'd be writting an essay in. That's kind of like saying the way the characters talk in "X-Men" is the language you'd use to write a paper in English, isn't it...? The way characters 'talk' in manga is much closer to spoken, natural Japanese... and in many manga, BEYOND natural spoken Japanese. (Though, YES, reading manga can be good for improving Japanese ability, but that isn't the case you are trying to make here.)
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RE: mangas vs. novels

Postby Narutofan » Wed 10.26.2005 8:36 am

this isn't fair.... a 7th grade student is fighting a teacher of i don't know what.... this is sooo not fair....and i havn't read many manga's i was just saying Death Note as an example... I'm not suggesting it.
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RE: mangas vs. novels

Postby richvh » Wed 10.26.2005 9:20 am

Kates wrote:
there are so many issues with alliteracy in American schools these days

Interesting mis-spelling...

Babbling brooks bring bubbles boiling briskly;
Shivering students stare silently at the scene.

I blame too much Beowulf for the epidemic of alliteracy in American schools. :p
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RE: mangas vs. novels

Postby mandolin » Wed 10.26.2005 11:08 am

Narutofan wrote:
this isn't fair.... a 7th grade student is fighting a teacher of i don't know what.... this is sooo not fair....and i havn't read many manga's i was just saying Death Note as an example... I'm not suggesting it.


What is 'sooo not fair'?

You know, I hear that arguement from my 5 year old son. Grats on being up to par with a 5 yr old's arguementative techniques.

You're looking for justification for what, exactly? To be able to read comic books in your spare time at school, or to be allowed to do book reports on them? You're hardly clear with your motives, and you're going to get equally vague and insufficient answers from the people here.

You can't ask questions that skirt around your real issue and expect to get anything of value from the responses -- though bless Kates-san, she gave it a try none-the-less.

On boredom (when reading a novel):

When you are reading a manga, I highly doubt you move from pane to pane, looking at the still picture and taking them at face value. The panes allude to action, which you further in your imagination as you read, turning it into an anime of sorts in your head.

Most people get this from novels, as well. But your vocabulary has to match your reading material, or much of the 'image' will be lost in the text, and you end up reading a mess of words that make no sense to you instead of being drawn into a fantastic story.

You're bored, because you've let your english skills suffer. You're content to let yourself be mediocre, or perhaps even inferior. You don't care, so long as you're having fun, right?

Unfortunately for you, most people who become teachers are driven by this 'crazy' need to see their students grow and thrive. You are a nightmare. I had kids in my class like you, who would think up any possible excuse to skirt their teacher's efforts.

I think the teacher SHOULD let you read comics. And as long as you pass the tests with a D or better, should pass you up to the next grade, and get you out of the school system as fast as possible. You're not worth a great teacher's time and effort.

I'm not a huge fan of "no one gets left behind" because it dumbs down the school system for the ones who are either talented or who work hard. You are neither.

Too bad most teachers are much more caring than I am. So altruistic. That means idealistic. It means being more caring than one should when faced with reality. I suppose in that, you and the teacher are the same. You refuse to expand your learning, and they refuse to give up on a hopeless ingrate.

Interesting stalemate.

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RE: mangas vs. novels

Postby AJBryant » Wed 10.26.2005 11:31 am

I blame too much Beowulf for the epidemic of alliteracy in American schools.


Best chuckle I've had all day. :) I've always been a fan of "Gawain and the Green Knight" myself. ;)


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RE: mangas vs. novels

Postby Kates » Wed 10.26.2005 2:33 pm

richvh wrote:
Kates wrote:
there are so many issues with alliteracy in American schools these days

Interesting mis-spelling...

Ah yes, you're right. Only one "L". I suppose I should have checked with Webster before typing this.

richvh:
Babbling brooks bring bubbles boiling briskly;
Shivering students stare silently at the scene.

This is ALLITERATION. ALITERACY is "the quality or state of being able to read but uninterested in doing so" (according to Webster). Alliteracy is not a word. Both of us missed that one.

----------------------------------------------------

Thanks, mandolin. ^_^
Narutofan: I didn't mean to make this unfair. I guess I was just trying to understand your reasons behind why you want to study manga--I was hoping you'd have a good reason, instead of just wanting a chance to study a comic book....
Last edited by Kates on Wed 10.26.2005 2:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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RE: mangas vs. novels

Postby WacKostRacKo » Wed 10.26.2005 2:51 pm

comic books would be fun to read but unfortunatly, if you want to get better at japanese then you have to read a novel, same goes for any language including your native one.
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