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So I went to the mall today

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So I went to the mall today

Postby amaravati » Sun 10.26.2008 3:58 pm

I hate to make another thread, because I don't want to spam, but since this is a practice board I guess this isn't a violation. I'm practicing my Japanese by writing it from the top of my head using the grammar that I have came across, so excuse any silly mistake(s) I have made. ขอโทษนะครับ

こにちは、けさ あきますて、浴びまして、しょくじをしましてから山田さんに電話をしました。山田さんは日本から来ました。いまはアメリカに住んでいます。僕の家のよこに山田さんの家があります。今日は山田さんモールに行きたいでした。僕も行きたいでした。モールまで歩きたいでしたが家からとても遠いです。 しかし、モールまでタクシーに乗りました。 モールでニンテンドWiiを買いたいでしただから、値段はたかいでした。$250でしたよ!

Hi, this morning I woke up, showered, and after I ate I called Yamada. Yamada came from Japan. Right now he is living in America. His house is next to my house. Today, Yamada wanted to go to the mall. I wanted to to the mall too. I wanted to walk to the mall, but it is really far from my house, so I took a taxi. At the mall, I wanted to buy Nintendo Wii, but it was expensive. It was $250!
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Re: So I went to the mall today

Postby richvh » Sun 10.26.2008 5:02 pm

amaravati wrote:こにちは、けさ あきますて、浴びまして、しょくじをしましてから山田さんに電話をしました。山田さんは日本から来ました。いまはアメリカに住んでいます。僕の家のよこに山田さんの家があります。今日は山田さんモールに行きたいでした。僕も行きたいでした。モールまで歩きたいでしたが家からとても遠いです。 しかし、モールまでタクシーに乗りました。 モールでニンテンドWiiを買いたいでしただから、値段はたかいでした。$250でしたよ!


My version:

こんにちは。今朝(けさ)、起(お)きて、湯(ゆ)を浴びて、食事(しょくじ)をした後(あと)で山田さんに電話しました。山田さんは日本から来ました。今(いま)はアメリカに住んでいます。山田さんの家は僕のの隣(となり)です。今日、山田さんはモールに行きたかったです。僕も行きたかったです。モールまで行きたかったが、家からとても遠いので、タクシーに乗って行きました。モールでニンテンドWiiを買いたかったが、高かったです。250ドルでしたよ!

Notes: Masu forms are only used at the end of sentences (or, sometimes, independent clauses) except in hyper-polite speech, which in modern society usually means in commercial correspondence/advertising. The -tai verbal suffix conjugates like an i adjective, which means you conjugate the -tai, not the desu, which serves purely as a politeness marker.
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Re: So I went to the mall today

Postby Yudan Taiteki » Sun 10.26.2008 5:15 pm

richvh wrote:こんにちは。今朝(けさ)、起(お)きて、湯(ゆ)を浴びて、食事(しょくじ)をした後(あと)で山田さんに電話しました。山田さんは日本から来ました。今(いま)はアメリカに住んでいます。山田さんの家は僕のの隣(となり)です。今日、山田さんはモールに行きたかったです。僕も行きたかったです。モールまで行きたかったが、家からとても遠いので、タクシーに乗って行きました。モールでニンテンドWiiを買いたかったが、高かったです。250ドルでしたよ!


Just a few additional things:

I don't think there was anything wrong with 食事をしてから, although I don't know for sure what the distinction between that and あとで is.

Also, note that you cannot use たい forms to describe the wants of people other than yourself, unless you put something after it like と思います, と言った, そうだ or the like. と言った is probably the most appropriate here.
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Re: So I went to the mall today

Postby richvh » Sun 10.26.2008 5:31 pm

From what I've been told, してから is immediately after, した後で is at some time after.
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Re: So I went to the mall today

Postby amaravati » Sun 10.26.2008 6:49 pm

Thank you for correcting my mistakes. Several questions though. Is it not ok to just say 浴びて like an intransitive verb?With this sentence 山田さんの家は僕のの隣です。 By using just 僕の without 家 is "my house" implied within the context therefore it is unnecessary? Also ...タクシーに乗って行きました。 is it not ok to just use 乗る by itself? Now I know that with Japanese you want to avoid using pronounces, but I find myself saying 山田さん a lot. Is that normal? Lastly how would I got about expressing the desire of other people without たい? Would this be ok 山田さんはモールに行って欲しい。? What about this 山田さんはモールに行くのが欲しい。?

ありがとうございました。
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Re: So I went to the mall today

Postby becki_kanou » Sun 10.26.2008 6:59 pm

Just a small note, but I think it's more natural to say "シャワーを浴びる" rather than "湯を浴びる" or just "浴びる".

浴びる means to bathe or to bask in something (water, sun, attention, etc.) but you need to specify what it is.
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Re: So I went to the mall today

Postby richvh » Sun 10.26.2008 7:12 pm

Well, in a recent chapter of ゆきの物語, at a place where I used 浴びる without specify what the person should be bathing in, after some back and forth while the native speaker was figuring out what I was trying to say, we settled on 湯を浴びる. Of course, this isn't exactly a modern setting, I doubt that showers were standard equipment in medieval Japanese castles.
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Re: So I went to the mall today

Postby Yudan Taiteki » Sun 10.26.2008 7:15 pm

amaravati wrote:Thank you for correcting my mistakes. Several questions though. Is it not ok to just say 浴びて like an intransitive verb?With this sentence 山田さんの家は僕のの隣です。 By using just 僕の without 家 is "my house" implied within the context therefore it is unnecessary?


The second の is a generic noun that stands in for something that is known in context. In this case it's a little more natural (I think) than repeating 家.

Also ...タクシーに乗って行きました。 is it not ok to just use 乗る by itself?


乗る by itself lacks the motion element, so you need the 行きます after it.

Would this be ok 山田さんはモールに行って欲しい。? What about this 山田さんはモールに行くのが欲しい。?


The first one means "Yamada-san wants someone to go to the mall". The second means what you want it to mean but I think it's a little unnatural in this case. Like I said, a very common way to deal with it is just to add と言った after the -tai form -- in most cases, you know the person wants to go because they told you. You can use たい to express other people's desires, you just can't use *only* たい.

If you think about it, it's impossible to literally *know* that someone wants to go because you can't get inside their head and see their thoughts. All you can say is that they told you they want to go, they look like they want to go, you think they want to go, etc. English idiom allows us to say "He wants to go" and omit the way that we know that information, Japanese idiom does not.
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Re: So I went to the mall today

Postby amaravati » Sun 10.26.2008 9:27 pm

Yudan Taiteki, thanks for the excellent explanation. One last question about 乗る. One of the NHK Japanese lessons has this sentence 私は、これからリムジンバスに乗るんだけど、あなたは?I'm taking an airport bus. How about you? In this case what made it possible to use 乗る without 行きます and what form of conjugation is 乗るん?
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Re: So I went to the mall today

Postby becki_kanou » Sun 10.26.2008 9:40 pm

amaravati wrote:Yudan Taiteki, thanks for the excellent explanation. One last question about 乗る. One of the NHK Japanese lessons has this sentence 私は、これからリムジンバスに乗るんだけど、あなたは?I'm taking an airport bus. How about you? In this case what made it possible to use 乗る without 行きます and what form of conjugation is 乗るん?


You don't need 行く because the speaker is talking about getting on the bus. 乗る can mean either "get on" or "ride". 乗るん is a shortening of 乗るの, where の offers an explanation. See here for more details.
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Re: So I went to the mall today

Postby richvh » Sun 10.26.2008 9:42 pm

amaravati wrote:In this case what made it possible to use 乗る without 行きます

Basically because the destination isn't mentioned; he's just saying he's going to board the shuttle bus.

and what form of conjugation is 乗るん?

The verb form here is 乗る; the ん goes with だ, んだ is a contraction of のだ.
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Re: So I went to the mall today

Postby Yudan Taiteki » Sun 10.26.2008 9:46 pm

amaravati wrote:Yudan Taiteki, thanks for the excellent explanation. One last question about 乗る. One of the NHK Japanese lessons has this sentence 私は、これからリムジンバスに乗るんだけど、あなたは?I'm taking an airport bus. How about you? In this case what made it possible to use 乗る without 行きます and what form of conjugation is 乗るん?


Because here they're talking about the act of riding on the limousine. Notice that there is no location or destination specified. However, I'm having a hard time finding google examples of DestinationにMeans of Transportに乗っていく so that may not be a natural way of expressing things. For instance, "タクシーに乗って行った" gets 20,100 google hits but if you add に before タクシー, it goes down to 6. I'm probably just having a mental lapse here.

The ん is not a conjugation; the んだ is a grammatical expression that is somewhat complicated to explain. Here it's used to state a fact -- sort of like "The situation is that..."
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Re: So I went to the mall today

Postby richvh » Sun 10.26.2008 10:00 pm

Wouldn't the more natural turn of phrase be <means of transport>に乗って<destination>に行く? Becky, can you ask your resident native speaker?
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Re: So I went to the mall today

Postby becki_kanou » Sun 10.26.2008 11:18 pm

Ok, I asked my resident native speaker and he said in order of naturalness they are
1)「タクシーで行きました。」
2)「タクシーに乗って行きました。」
3) 「タクシーを使いました。」
4) 「タクシーに乗りました。」
そうだ、嬉しいんだ、生きる喜び!
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