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some questions..

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some questions..

Postby roosh » Sun 10.30.2005 12:23 pm

もし皆さんはがんばてです、私たちの綺麗の未来になります。
this sentence ain't sound right, but i don't know hot to correct it...= =
probaly the last part of the sentence?
instead ofになります,should i edit it with something like "come true" or "arrive"?
anyway, can i use 綺麗in this sentence? well, it's usable in chinese, as what i've known.
oh one more thing. does もしlinks with でしょう? well actually...i'm not quite sure about when to use でしょう. in this case, which suits it?ですかでしょう。
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RE: some questions..

Postby nprz » Sun 10.30.2005 1:41 pm

もし meaning if, so you should link it with a conditional statement, like がんばれば, then 奇麗 is a na-adj, so you could use な rather than の
If you change the word order around you could say our future will become beautiful
私たちの未来は奇麗になります。
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RE: some questions..

Postby roosh » Sun 10.30.2005 1:58 pm

i still need to strengthen up on basics though...
ええと。。 がんばればmeans?
anyway, thx for your help,nprz!
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RE: some questions..

Postby skrhgh3b » Sun 10.30.2005 3:39 pm

you should be careful when using the word "ain't," especially if you don't have a good command of the language. quite frankly, it's bad english and makes you sound uneducated. so, unless you can use it for the irony of its effect, it's best to avoid it altogether.

this sentence ain't sound right --> this sentence doesn't sound right


sorry to correct your english and not your japanese ;)
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RE: some questions..

Postby nprz » Sun 10.30.2005 5:03 pm

-large edit-
*There was a big thing about ain't but I didn't see the the original post had ain't in it (and yes, it didn't mean sense using ain't in that context)*
Last edited by nprz on Sun 10.30.2005 10:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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RE: some questions..

Postby nprz » Sun 10.30.2005 5:06 pm

roosh wrote:
i still need to strengthen up on basics though...
ええと。。 がんばればmeans?
anyway, thx for your help,nprz!


がんばれば means if <person/people> tries one's/their best
がんばったら also means the same.

There are some subtle difference in when each can be used, but in this case it means the same.
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RE: some questions..

Postby Kates » Sun 10.30.2005 9:51 pm

roosh wrote:
もし皆さんはがんばてです、私たちの綺麗の未来になります。

Are you trying to say:
If everyone tries their hardest, our future will become beautiful. ??

If so, then I think this would be better:
もし、皆はがんばったら、私たちの未来がきれいになります。

I don't think 'minnaSAN' sounds right, but I could be wrong.
Your sentence says "mirai ni naru" -- to become the future. Is that what you want to say? Do you mean "mirai wa kirei ni naru" -- the future becomes beautiful?


instead ofになります,should i edit it with something like "come true" or "arrive"?

I think 実現(じつげん)する would mean 'turn [something] into a reality'.


anyway, can i use 綺麗in this sentence? well, it's usable in chinese, as what i've known.

This is 'kirei' isn't it? Why wouldn't you be able to use it...? Just remember it is a -na-adjective in Japanese, but that doesn't make much difference when used before 'ni naru'... however, it matters before a noun: 綺麗な未来, for example.

oh one more thing. does もし links with でしょう? well actually...i'm not quite sure about when to use でしょう. in this case, which suits it?ですかでしょう。

From what I know, "moshi" is not often used with "deshou"--usually "moshi" and "-tara" are paired together, which makes it obvious you are saying "if" (-tara can also be used to say 'when' so that's why sometimes "moshi" is used when the intended meaning is 'if')
"Deshou" means more like "probably" instead of "if".
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RE: some questions..

Postby nprz » Sun 10.30.2005 10:54 pm

Kates wrote:

I don't think 'minnaSAN' sounds right, but I could be wrong.


minnasan isn't the right way to say it, it would be either: minasan, or minna. minasan is fine though :)
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RE: the english correcting thingy, hehe

Postby roosh » Sun 10.30.2005 11:02 pm

skrhgh3b wrote:
sorry to correct your english and not your japanese ;)


keke..i don't mind that anyway. so ain't isn't a good word to use? thanks for reminding. i don't know such things and was just practising on using it though:|
of course, i don't think i'll continue that in the future. thx again.:)
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RE: some questions..

Postby roosh » Sun 10.30.2005 11:25 pm

Kates wrote:
roosh wrote:
もし皆さんはがんばてです、私たちの綺麗の未来になります。

Are you trying to say:
If everyone tries their hardest, our future will become beautiful. ??


If so, then I think this would be better:
もし、皆はがんばったら、私たちの未来がきれいになります。

yup, that's what i meant. thx for the new sentence.:)


Kates wrote:
I think 実現(じつげん)する would mean 'turn [something] into a reality'.

hmm..if so, how would i replace it in the sentence?
does it work like になります?

Kates wrote:
From what I know, "moshi" is not often used with "deshou"--usually "moshi" and "-tara" are paired together, which makes it obvious you are saying "if" (-tara can also be used to say 'when' so that's why sometimes "moshi" is used when the intended meaning is 'if')
"Deshou" means more like "probably" instead of "if".

okay! i guess i've get some answers from here. but there's still one more thing...actually, i'm not quite sure about this deshou thing. what's its difference from desu?
thx a bunch kates-san. your info helps a lot!:D
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RE: some questions..

Postby roosh » Sun 10.30.2005 11:39 pm

nprz wrote:
Kates wrote:

I don't think 'minnaSAN' sounds right, but I could be wrong.


minnasan isn't the right way to say it, it would be either: minasan, or minna. minasan is fine though :)


i think kates was trying to mean that she doesn't think that minaSAN suits the sentence.
so the conclusion is, minasan [or the other mina's you stated above] is also able to be use right here?
thx for the previous explainations too, nprz!
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RE: some questions..

Postby nprz » Mon 10.31.2005 12:28 am

もし皆さんはがんばったら、私たちの奇麗な未来が実現する。

I think this would work...

皆さん mean everyone, and I think that is who you are addressing, so it would be fine.
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RE: some questions..

Postby roosh » Mon 10.31.2005 2:28 am

yeay. tht'll be good. thx again.:p
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RE: some questions..

Postby Kates » Mon 10.31.2005 9:20 am

I think 'minnaSAN' is not really appropriate because you are including yourself in the 'minna'... indicated by the use of 'watashi-tachi' in the second part of the sentence. If it was ME writing, I would not write 'san'... but perhaps it's personal choice.

nprz pretty much has the 'jitugen' use for you. I'm not quite sure if 'mirai' can be/is used with 'jitsugen' though. (I just found the word in my dictionary and the example sentences don't use 'mirai'.) Perhaps it is okay.

As for 'desu' vs. 'deshou'-- Think of 'desu' as an equals sign (=). When you use 'desu' you are saying "This is that."
りんごはおいしいです。 Apples are delicious.
Apples = delicious.

'Deshou' (plain form: darou) means 'probably' and is used when the speaker is making a guess which is not really based on any particular information. It's often used in a way similar to 'ne'.
りんごはおいしいでしょう? Apples are delicious, aren't they?
このレストランは高いだろう。 This restaurant is probably expensive.

As I said, 'moshi' is not often used with 'darou'--however, a few words are:
多分(たぶん): probably, maybe, perhaps, likely
恐らく(おそらく): probably, maybe, perhaps, most likely
きっと: surely, certainly, undoubtedly
Using 'kitto' makes the speaker sound the most certain. 'Tabun' and 'osoraku' make the speaker sound a bit more certain that he would without using them.
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RE: some questions..

Postby AJBryant » Mon 10.31.2005 10:53 am

I think 'minnaSAN' is not really appropriate because you are including yourself in the 'minna'...


Well, for the record, properly speaking "minna-san" is NEVER correct. It's either "Minna" or "mina-san." Just to make sure the point is clear, count the number of Ns appearing in both.

Another possibility is "zen'in" (全員) for "minna" if there's some concern over that one...

But I agree: "mina-san" is a term of address for "you all" -- it isn't used for "all of us." The thing is, people are trying to translate too literally ("if everyone") and not looking at what "everyone" means. Japanese needs to specify whether everyone is speaker inclusive ("all of us") or speaker exclusive ("all of you"). Once you solve that, the solution is simple.

This one is really easy to fix. All we need is to put "we" *at the front* of the sentence. Something like 我ら全員がんばれば or 我ら皆がんばれば for "If we all ganbaru...."


Tony
Last edited by AJBryant on Mon 10.31.2005 10:53 am, edited 1 time in total.
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