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what should i start with?

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Re: what should i start with?

Postby eidius » Sun 11.09.2008 12:04 am

Harisenbon wrote:I'm not quite sure why someone who knows persian, english and french is having such a hard time understanding how to go about learning a language. You should get a text book. All your questions will most likely be answered by one.


im just begginer and your right il do that il go to chapter first thing this monday
mais tu sais cette languge est tres differant d'autre langue le logic que anglais et francais utilize n'es pas le meme c'est pour ca que je pose ces questions et merci de m'avoir repondus je vais etre un noob pour 1 ou 2 semain donc sa va finir bientau lol
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Re: what should i start with?

Postby solidsnake360 » Sun 11.09.2008 12:43 am

eidius wrote:doesn't anyone in japan think that 15 years of learning just for a language is kind of odd? and consider changing a few things lol and and btw im practicing my hiragana letters(i think im getting it) how can you make a word of of these? how do you know which one is connected to which and if your reading it how can you identify these letters to make sense out of these? i am sorry im a complete and utter noob maybe my question is logic or plain stupid please bear with me here :D and a wise man once said there are no stupid questions XD

It's true, there are not stupid questions. However, not all questions need to be asked when they have already been answered before. I really do suggest, as Yudan did earlier, to go to the Japanese language page on wikipedia and read up on how all the basic elements of the language work. I believe there is a very extensive article on how hiragana and katakana work, along with how they work in conjunction with the kanji. Good luck.
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Re: what should i start with?

Postby furrykef » Sun 11.09.2008 1:22 am

Harisenbon wrote:I'm not quite sure why someone who knows persian, english and french is having such a hard time understanding how to go about learning a language.


You'd be surprised. I have severe struggles with figuring out the best way to learn Japanese even though I'm doing fine with Spanish and Italian (and I started Italian only recently).
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Re: what should i start with?

Postby Harisenbon » Sun 11.09.2008 2:53 am

eidius wrote:je vais etre un noob pour 1 ou 2 semain donc sa va finir bientau lol


This sentence made my day. ;)

My french sucks, but I think I caught the jist of what you were saying.
I realize that English and French are very similar, and thus can be learned in similar ways, but I was under the impression that Persian was quite different both grammatically and with the writing system.

If your only experience is with western languages, getting your head around Japanese is going to be a difficult struggle. The way that one thinks in Japanese sometimes seems completely counter to how the same ideas would work grammatically in English.

I remember a friend of mine telling me a story in which he started studying Japanese at college at the same time as his friend started studying german. By their senior year, the friend studying german was giving talks about theoretical physics to visiting professors from germany, while my friend was finally being able to read childrens books. ;)
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Re: what should i start with?

Postby Mike Cash » Sun 11.09.2008 3:52 am

I think we're being punked.
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Re: what should i start with?

Postby solidsnake360 » Sun 11.09.2008 3:59 am

Mike Cash wrote:I think we're being punked.

What makes you say that?
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Re: what should i start with?

Postby Sairana » Sun 11.09.2008 5:15 am

solidsnake360 wrote:
Mike Cash wrote:I think we're being punked.

What makes you say that?


Genius-like language ability + incredibly stupid questions = full of crap

Learned English on Dora and Clifford? At 14? In 5 months? With a Persian background?

He can write Persian, but can't comprehend kana or how they would work in Japanese? Ignores sensible advice to read about the writing system? 13 posts in 1 day, all staunchly ignorant despite his fantastic progress in 3 other languages?

Is there any reason to believe it's legit? :P I'm with Mike on this one.
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Re: what should i start with?

Postby furrykef » Sun 11.09.2008 5:58 am

Harisenbon wrote:My french sucks, but I think I caught the jist of what you were saying.


My French is nonexistent, but it says "I'm going to be a noob for one or two weeks so this will end soon" (I'm assuming "sa" was meant to be "ça" and "bientau" was meant to be "bientôt" -- there goes the idea that his French is good). WordReference.com rocks. :) They also have a new en<->jp dictionary, but I have no idea what quality it is. (I know it's not another EDICT dictionary, though -- thank God. It's a good dictionary for what it is, but how many of those do we need?)

Harisenbon wrote:By their senior year, the friend studying german was giving talks about theoretical physics to visiting professors from germany, while my friend was finally being able to read childrens books. ;)


Depending on one's native language (or whatever other languages one knows), it might actually be easier to talk about theoretical physics in German than read a children's book, depending on how much vocabulary is shared with one's language, since it's usually the fancy and obscure words that are shared among languages. I know that this certainly could be the case with Spanish and Italian, since they share many Latin words with English, and a lot of non-Latin words were borrowed from English too. German shies away from importing words from Latin or any other source, though, so maybe it doesn't apply to German so much.

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Re: what should i start with?

Postby Dehitay » Sun 11.09.2008 1:14 pm

I really think the majority of you are missing the point. You seem to be lumping this question together with similar questions and spitting out the common answer for that category of questions. However, this one deserves it's own individual case analysis.

If you read carefully, you'll realize he's not asking for the length of time to attain fluency or something similar. Judging from what he said, he's most likely reaching for a goal of being able to transcribe Japanese speech and read Japanese text. The fact that he said he learned English in 3 months and French in 5 months should be an almost immediate giveaway that he wasn't talking about fluency. Even toddlers don't pull that off with their massive language learning abilities.

And as to answering your question, it depends on if you're factoring kanji into the equation. If you only want to trascribe speech into kana and be able to read kana to a high extent, it again can be a matter of months. However, kanji makes things very complicated, and that would increase the time to years. To understand kanji, you pretty much have to understand the Japanese vocabulary that comes with it. There's thousands of kanji characters, each with a general meaning or even a few general meanings.
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