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Genki Vs Japanese for Everyone

Have a textbook or grammar book that you find particularly helpful? What about a learning tip to share with others?

Re: Genki Vs Japanese for Everyone

Postby Yudan Taiteki » Sun 11.09.2008 1:32 pm

OK yeah, those are pretty bad mistakes.
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Re: Genki Vs Japanese for Everyone

Postby Athefre » Sun 11.09.2008 2:54 pm

ニッキー wrote:On the other hand, I don't know of anything else that offers timed games where you have to write the kanji within a time limit, so if you want to practise producing the kanji from memory, it's rather good.

So I guess my conclusion would be: it's fine for practising, but make sure you get the stroke order correct from somewhere else. There are plenty of places to find the stroke order online, so you don't necessarily have to spend money. I've never spent money on something for stroke order and I've managed to pick out plenty of wrong ones so far. :)
[...]
In general though, I probably would recommend MJC to people who aren't too advanced already for the practice (as long as they realise the writing sections do have flaws). There are 12 games in total, there's bound to be at least a few you enjoy and you can listen to all the words and even record yourself saying them to compare. Unfortunately it does use a lot of romaji, but it offers some features that are hard to find anywhere else. Also, not all of the games involve recognition, some involve having to actually produce the answer yourself. Those are the ones which will really help you learn.

Regarding Kanji Sonomama Rakubiki Jiten, go for it! I think it's ace. All the people in my class sit flicking through dictionaries looking things up and I just whip out my DS, write some kana and I've got the answer. Being able to look up kanji that you don't know is also great (as long as you understand how stroke order works, you shouldn't have much trouble, although some kanji are really difficult to get right).
[...]


Well, I've already ordered a book so I'll get Kanji Sonomama Rakubiki Jiten (and maybe MJC...those errors are a real turn-off) later for the the writing practice, right now I'm hoping just having the book, self-made flash cards, and confirmation from this site and others will be enough to really get me started.
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Re: Genki Vs Japanese for Everyone

Postby leonl » Mon 11.10.2008 12:44 pm

Veering Slightly off the topic of MJC, I have a question for the JFE users did you buy the kanjibook or did you find you could get along without it
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Re: Genki Vs Japanese for Everyone

Postby furrykef » Mon 11.10.2008 1:36 pm

Well, I'd already completed Heisig (or close to it) when I ordered JFE, so I certainly don't need it. :mrgreen: In fact I use more kanji than the book does for that reason; the book has はちみつ for "honey", but I write 蜂蜜.

As for the needs of a more typical student who is learning the kanji for the first time, I have no idea. Kanji usage is pretty light in the opening chapters, but I think it does pick up pretty fast.

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Re: Genki Vs Japanese for Everyone

Postby Yudan Taiteki » Mon 11.10.2008 4:39 pm

Most native speakers write はちみつ, although 蜂蜜 appears on ingredients lists and other places.
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Re: Genki Vs Japanese for Everyone

Postby furrykef » Mon 11.10.2008 5:11 pm

Hmm. Would it look particularly odd or pretentious if I prefer 蜂蜜? I tend to err on the side of too much kanji rather than too little for the sake of getting more familiar with the kanji forms (but, of course, not to the point of writing 今日は! or 有ります ;)).
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Re: Genki Vs Japanese for Everyone

Postby Yudan Taiteki » Mon 11.10.2008 5:13 pm

Well, kanji in general look odd from a foreigner so it's hard to gauge, but I think that many, perhaps most, native speakers cannot write 蜂蜜 by hand without looking it up. Although, the opportunities to actually write that word are pretty limited -- maybe on a shopping list?
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Re: Genki Vs Japanese for Everyone

Postby two_heads_talking » Mon 11.10.2008 5:28 pm

Yudan Taiteki wrote:Well, kanji in general look odd from a foreigner so it's hard to gauge, but I think that many, perhaps most, native speakers cannot write 蜂蜜 by hand without looking it up. Although, the opportunities to actually write that word are pretty limited -- maybe on a shopping list?


Bees and honey don't come up in everyday conversation? What's the world coming to?
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Re: Genki Vs Japanese for Everyone

Postby Yudan Taiteki » Mon 11.10.2008 6:13 pm

Well, even if they come up in conversation we're talking about writing here. :-)

Honestly, the opportunities for most foreigners to handwrite Japanese at all, for any reason (other than just for fun or self practice, or for homework) are limited, especially in comparison with your opportunities to read, speak, and listen to Japanese, or to type Japanese on computers. If you do not live in Japan, I would say extremely limited. When I lived in Japan I occasionally wrote short messages or memos, but the content was fairly simple. Now, I barely write any Japanese by hand except notes for myself (from class or whatever), and I can use kana if I want.
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Re: Genki Vs Japanese for Everyone

Postby justinh » Mon 11.10.2008 8:43 pm

ニッキー wrote:Anyway, for some of the hiragana: な has the upper right dash last, や has the left vertical stroke first...


I can't comment on much of your post, but for な and や, that's the stroke order I was taught by my instructor (a NS). Is that not the "official" stroke order?
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Re: Genki Vs Japanese for Everyone

Postby solidsnake360 » Mon 11.10.2008 8:51 pm

justinh wrote:
ニッキー wrote:Anyway, for some of the hiragana: な has the upper right dash last, や has the left vertical stroke first...


I can't comment on much of your post, but for な and や, that's the stroke order I was taught by my instructor (a NS). Is that not the "official" stroke order?

I always thought official stroke order for な was left portion first, then the dash, then the bottom loop. And for や it was horizontal curve, small dash on the right, then the cutting line on the left.
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Re: Genki Vs Japanese for Everyone

Postby Yudan Taiteki » Mon 11.10.2008 8:57 pm

solidsnake360 wrote:
justinh wrote:
ニッキー wrote:Anyway, for some of the hiragana: な has the upper right dash last, や has the left vertical stroke first...


I can't comment on much of your post, but for な and や, that's the stroke order I was taught by my instructor (a NS). Is that not the "official" stroke order?

I always thought official stroke order for な was left portion first, then the dash, then the bottom loop. And for や it was horizontal curve, small dash on the right, then the cutting line on the left.


That's the only way I've ever seen it.
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Re: Genki Vs Japanese for Everyone

Postby Dustin » Mon 11.10.2008 9:26 pm

leonl wrote:Veering Slightly off the topic of MJC, I have a question for the JFE users did you buy the kanjibook or did you find you could get along without it


So far I am doing well without the Kanji book.

I also have a good Kanji dictionary, so if anything REALLY troubles me I can look it up in there, or in my "A guide to remembering Japanese Characters" by Henshall.

I did not know until recently there WAS a Kanji book and then I decided not to get it once I did.
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Re: Genki Vs Japanese for Everyone

Postby Infidel » Mon 11.10.2008 9:27 pm

When i started using the Japanese Coach game, i started to think i was doing the kana wrong all along. It's both relieving and annoying to hear that I was not.
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Re: Genki Vs Japanese for Everyone

Postby Dustin » Mon 11.10.2008 9:39 pm

Infidel wrote:When i started using the Japanese Coach game, i started to think i was doing the kana wrong all along. It's both relieving and annoying to hear that I was not.


When I first heard about MJC I thought maybe I would add it to my arsenal, but if I have to develop bad habits in order to use it as a glorified flashcard program, maybe I'll go another way, there are other programs that I can use instead.
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