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English usage?

英語を勉強している方のためのフォーラムです。練習のために英語の文章を投稿してもかまわなく、英語の文法・語彙に関する質問をしてもけっこうです。

RE: English usage?

Postby Sukebe Uchuujin » Tue 11.01.2005 10:46 am

Kodi-san,
It was me that brought up Mr Bryant's error- the 'taked' thing.
How many times do i have to apologise for what i thought was just a harmless joke with someone who can quite clearly look after himself?????
(in retrospect i should have just PM'd him(personal messeged (oh damn! nested parentheses what am i gonna do now??))...next time i will)
My English is not perfect, I agree, but show me someone who isn't an english teacher or a journalist whose english is.......
I reaslise that this is a serious discussion board but do come on old chap.....sense of humor bypass???
Oh and while we're at it.....
I see you're from Preston.....you people do not speak English either:o :D :D :D (joke..PLEASE laugh.....i dont mean it)
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RE: English usage?

Postby Legend Saber » Tue 11.01.2005 1:02 pm

The only reason I really hate people that don't use proper grammar and punctuation is because they're so freaking hard to understand. I shouldn't have to read a post word by word simply because the person is too lazy to check grammar and fully spell out words like 'people' or 'to.' I honestly don't have any problems at all with how people type -- so long as I can understand them.
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RE: English usage?

Postby nprz » Wed 11.02.2005 12:00 am

Also proper punctuation can make the meaning of a sentence clearer.

zengargoyle: I've only been using the Internet for 10 years or so, and that predates all the things you mentioned, except porn, which was free.

Trying to learn a foreign language without understanding how one's native language works seem fairly futile. I wouldn't go as far to say that they shouldn't, but either 1) they will learn their native language better from studying the foreign language's grammar 2) they will not be able to understand the foreign language because they will not understand how languages work. Cellphone/IM speak on the other hand is just annoying and disrespectful on a forum full of strangers.

-edit- Added bold because of below post. :o
Last edited by nprz on Wed 11.02.2005 1:40 am, edited 1 time in total.
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RE: English usage?

Postby appleraja » Wed 11.02.2005 1:04 am

i disagree, no one can really master a language im sure most of us are all proficient enough with english no need to meticulously study it and become masters, we can all communicate clearly enough
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RE: English usage?

Postby mandolin » Wed 11.02.2005 5:25 am

Someone always has to make an arguement based around an exaggerated statement.

No one used the phrase 'meticulously study', or anything remotely close to it in meaning. Further, no one was talking about 'mastering' a language.

The sentiment expressed by the original poster is that people should posess basic grammatical skills in their native language before attempting to learn a new language.

I share this sentiment. And I had written out a whole lot of paragraphs before I suddenly started to realize something. No, it is not the grammatical and spelling errors that are the problem. At least not for me.

For the most part, I can overlook extremely bad grammar and poor spelling, if the content of the post is legitimate. Legitimate, from my perspective, that is.

I look favorably on anyone who has specific grammar problems, on people who have translation questions and have shown that they tried to do it themselves, and are looking for their own answer. Spelling be damned, these people are trying, and I really admire someone who is working hard at something new and challenging.

However, I will submit a gross generalization: most people who post with extremely poor spelling and/or grammar do not show effort of any kind on their part to solve their own problem. Examples of what I hate are as follows:

I hate it when people want song lyrics for their favorite song, when they've apparently not made any effort to translate it themselves first. They typically come off as people who are just hoping to get a free translation out of a community of people dedicated to teaching and learning the language, rather than paying for one.

I also hate it when people seem to want a quick fix solution to a homework related issue. Something like "Help, I need this in english asap my class starts in 5 min hurry plzz!!!!11!!"

I see red when people ask questions that are answered in the "read this before posting" thread. Particularly people who are searching endlessly for an easy way to learn kanji, as if there's some miracle method out there somewhere, and if you ask frequently enough, someone will break down and let you into the wonderful world of insta-kanji-knowledge.

To conclude in a (hopefully) easy to understand summary --

People [who make such posts/errors] are parasites. They have given no effort of their own and expect (somteimes DEMAND) that the teachers/students on this site to do things FOR them, providing NOTHING of value to the community in return.

Maybe the original poster really -is- irritated by just the bad grammar. But this is my take on it. I hate parasites.

:o
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RE: English usage?

Postby Infidel » Wed 11.02.2005 7:08 am

well said,, Particuarly,

Particularly people who are searching endlessly for an easy way to learn kanji, as if there's some miracle method out there somewhere, and if you ask frequently enough, someone will break down and let you into the wonderful world of insta-kanji-knowledge.


That made me laugh :)
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RE: English usage?

Postby InsanityRanch » Wed 11.02.2005 9:01 am

mandolin wrote:
For the most part, I can overlook extremely bad grammar and poor spelling, if the content of the post is legitimate. Legitimate, from my perspective, that is.
:o


Exactly! I agree completely.

I take your point about parasites, but mostly they don't bother me. If they have an interesting enough title to get me to read the post at all (usually not), I can ignore them if I have no interest in their "project". Mouseclick. Gone.

The ones that get me are the whiners. (from my perspective, of course). Dunno why but I find these harder to ignore and they really bug me! <g>
"Give me a fruitful error any time, full of seeds, bursting with its own corrections. You can keep your sterile truth for yourself." -- Vilfredo Pareto
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RE: English usage?

Postby WacKostRacKo » Wed 11.02.2005 12:15 pm

I think that we should ask everyone to use correct english where possible, because it does help the people whose english is not their first language. But punishment? People on this site have enough to do with correcting japanese, surely not english as well!!:)
tanuki wrote:
How about:

外人: これはすしです。すしが好きです。
日本人: おお!日本語が上手ですね。
外人: Erm....what?


story of my life...
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RE: English usage?

Postby InsanityRanch » Wed 11.02.2005 1:27 pm

Oh, I meant to mention that my current Japanese reading text is a version of 電車男
that a friend of mine was kind enough to download from the internet. iow...

Japanese leet-speak. <g>

The entire thing apparently appeared first as a 2channel thread, in which a nerdy Japanese guy asks for help (from other nerdy guys hehehe) about how to get to know a nice young woman he met in somewhat amusing circumstances on a train.

So far my teacher has explained all the bits that stumped me, except for one sentence where she stared at it for a bit and said, "I have no idea."

What fun! When I get my questions better organized, I'll probably post 'em here!

<VERY evil grin>

Shira
"Give me a fruitful error any time, full of seeds, bursting with its own corrections. You can keep your sterile truth for yourself." -- Vilfredo Pareto
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RE: English usage?

Postby nprz » Wed 11.02.2005 3:05 pm

It is really leet-speak or is it nerd speak? I've read some of the 2channel conversation and there were parts that seemed like a whole new dialect. The ASCII train that was created wasn't as amazing as the one in the drama :(
But this is always fun _| ̄|○
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RE: English usage?

Postby InsanityRanch » Wed 11.02.2005 3:36 pm

nprz wrote:
It is really leet-speak or is it nerd speak? I've read some of the 2channel conversation and there were parts that seemed like a whole new dialect. The ASCII train that was created wasn't as amazing as the one in the drama :(
But this is always fun _| ̄|○


OK, now I'm dating myself horribly. I picked up the term "leet-speak" from my daughter and didn't realize there were tribal variations of it. :o Maybe that is why when I write something I learned from her she will say, "Mom, you are SOOOO not leet"...

And what IS that _| ̄|○ thingie?

Shira
"Give me a fruitful error any time, full of seeds, bursting with its own corrections. You can keep your sterile truth for yourself." -- Vilfredo Pareto
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RE: English usage?

Postby nprz » Wed 11.02.2005 4:46 pm

I just meant, I wonder if they are using only words that otaku would know. I do noticed that they will drop っ a lot from words and use katakana for many of them.
_| ̄|○ is used by the Densha-otoko, I'm only taking a guess, but maybe すみません.
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RE: English usage?

Postby InsanityRanch » Wed 11.02.2005 4:59 pm

<sigh>

And here I've been skipping pictures, not realizing they have meaning!

Oh well, I'm following the story. If I miss a few of the nuances, I'll survive. And eventually I'll come across the same puzzling bits often enough to figure them out. Mostly.

Thanks for explaining that one though!
"Give me a fruitful error any time, full of seeds, bursting with its own corrections. You can keep your sterile truth for yourself." -- Vilfredo Pareto
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RE: English usage?

Postby zengargoyle » Wed 11.02.2005 5:06 pm

InsanityRanch wrote:

And what IS that _| ̄|○ thingie?


see: orz

edit: this was the link i was trying to find All About orz (via: Boing Boing)
Last edited by zengargoyle on Wed 11.02.2005 5:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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RE: English usage?

Postby Infidel » Wed 11.02.2005 5:37 pm

Looks like a man banging his head on the floor in frustration to me.
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