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"dating rules in japan"

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Re: "dating rules in japan"

Postby two_heads_talking » Thu 12.11.2008 11:14 am

furrykef wrote:Guys, don't let this thread get out of control. spin13, your post does come off as a bit caustic, perhaps more than you intended (I don't know if by "why don't you focus on making you somebody likable?" you meant to imply that he isn't already somebody likeable, but it comes across that way)... being frank is one thing, but I think you could have phrased it a bit more delicately without losing the message.

uberscheisse, "do you know how to read?" isn't very nice either (though I do understand your impatience with spin13)... let's keep it civil, OK?

- Kef


Spin likes to sound caustic.. Go back through the forums and take a look.
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Re: "dating rules in japan"

Postby Sairana » Thu 12.11.2008 11:26 am

uberscheisse wrote:yeah, but his post was pretty dismissive and condescending. i'm not a 16 year old dummy. i'm admittedly a (japan) newbie, but i'm an experienced guy fumbling through a culture i don't fully understand. i'm doing my best to honorably win the hand of a quality lady. at the very least buddy could have been cool.


Considering I'm a woman, and you pretty much bared your soul in here.... lemme put in my 2 cents worth. If I knew half the stuff about you and your perception of women as you posted here, I wouldn't want anything to do with you.

Spin may have come off sounding rather mean, but the bluntness isn't without its merits. I'm pretty put off by how you have treated women in the past, and you don't particularly seem inclined to change that... you just seem to want to know how to act to win her.

If you need to act to win her, then her attraction isn't strong enough to overcome cultural boundaries and it probably shouldn't be pursued. Be yourself, and if she doesn't like what she sees, that's just too bad and a lot of heartache for you. If you want to be worthy of a quality lady, you need to be a quality man.
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Re: "dating rules in japan"

Postby keatonatron » Thu 12.11.2008 1:49 pm

I second that.

If you need to ask strangers on the internet how to get the relationship going, you're (plural) obviously not ready yet.
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Re: "dating rules in japan"

Postby nukemarine » Thu 12.11.2008 2:22 pm

keatonatron wrote:I second that.

If you need to ask strangers on the internet how to get the relationship going, you're (plural) obviously not ready yet.


You're going against the spirit of 電車男. Look, people in real life offer better and worse advice as those on the net. What happens is you accept on as given what you give as reasonable advice, then run with it.

My advice will always be to have "good" sex as soon as possible. I put good in quotes as it's important for the male to be pleasing to the female in a more than adequate manner. In my experience, a woman that has good sex will make exceptions for many a character flaw that would interfere with an introductory relationship. With that out of the way, you both can decide how you are with each beyond the superficial "how are you both at sex" problem.

In Japan, with a proliferation of love hotels, you can't suggest "Want to go to a Hotel", as that's way to suggestive. Make it seem like it's all your fault (area, last train, convenience, excitement, etc.). That puts her in your area, but she ultimately goes with it.

Don't look at Japanese women as different from most other women (yeah, culturally they are, but biologically, it's almost identical). Women want sexually excitement like men. Introduce that feeling and you get yourself closer to sex. With sex out of the way, you get to deal with the real person (you and your lady friend). That then goes in any direction you so choose (more sex, break up, closer relationship, slow relationship with others on the side, etc.).
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Re: "dating rules in japan"

Postby Dehitay » Thu 12.11.2008 2:27 pm

Sairana wrote:
uberscheisse wrote:yeah, but his post was pretty dismissive and condescending. i'm not a 16 year old dummy. i'm admittedly a (japan) newbie, but i'm an experienced guy fumbling through a culture i don't fully understand. i'm doing my best to honorably win the hand of a quality lady. at the very least buddy could have been cool.


Considering I'm a woman, and you pretty much bared your soul in here.... lemme put in my 2 cents worth. If I knew half the stuff about you and your perception of women as you posted here, I wouldn't want anything to do with you.

Spin may have come off sounding rather mean, but the bluntness isn't without its merits. I'm pretty put off by how you have treated women in the past, and you don't particularly seem inclined to change that... you just seem to want to know how to act to win her.

If you need to act to win her, then her attraction isn't strong enough to overcome cultural boundaries and it probably shouldn't be pursued. Be yourself, and if she doesn't like what she sees, that's just too bad and a lot of heartache for you. If you want to be worthy of a quality lady, you need to be a quality man.


If you're referring to the post where he stated he's slept with a woman to secure a future, I would hardly even blame him for that. You're probably different, but the majority of women in the younger generation are excessively passive. They have no problem hearing you out, sounding interested, and then immediately ignoring you when you get out of sight. Sadly, only a small number will properly affirm or reject your interest. However, women are much more willing to keep talking to you if you have sex with them.

I hate to say it, but I actually agree with nukemarine's advice. I wouldn't put it as rudely as he did, but the best way to secure a woman's (or at least a young American woman) interest in you is sex. I would change it if I could, but women in general have to make that choice, not me.

However, I'm not sure about a Japanese woman who's old enough to have a 4 year old child, so I'm not going to make any recommendations in this case.
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Re: "dating rules in japan"

Postby keatonatron » Thu 12.11.2008 3:18 pm

Well, this thread has taken an interesting turn. The whole "try to sleep with her as soon as possible" thing is a little unexpected. It's my experience that simply trying to get in a girl's pants doesn't usually work too well... And if it does work well, she's most likely not "girlfriend material".

Of course you can say "it's to secure our future together" or "it's to keep her talking to me," but no matter the reason, how is it going to look to her if your only goal is to sleep with her asap? If you go that route, she'll never learn to trust you...

And if she did, she'd be pretty naive and again, not girlfriend material :P
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Re: "dating rules in japan"

Postby two_heads_talking » Thu 12.11.2008 4:24 pm

Personally, if all you are doing is trying to get into someone's pants, you aren't mature enough for the relationship. That, "let's do the horizontal mambo" thought process just exudes an, "I haven't quite matured past the peeping tom stage of life" kind of maturity to me.

I'm not saying that a relationship should be sans sex, but I am saying if that is your only motive, not only are you a troll and a pathetic excuse, but you have nothing to offer the relationship anyways.

I know this isn't a morality police issue, but keeping it in your pants takes alot more maturity than pulling your junk out for every girl you run into.. In fact, you'll find they aren't so impressed if all you want to do dance the tango on the floor (so to speak) And just because America's morals have tanked into the depths of no one respecting themselves and turning into swamp whores, is no reason to jump on the band wagon.
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Re: "dating rules in japan"

Postby Dehitay » Thu 12.11.2008 6:04 pm

I don't think anybody has said they're in it just for the sex yet. Hell, even nukemarine who comes across with a frat boy personality is suggesting sex as the means rather than the goal.
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Re: "dating rules in japan"

Postby Sairana » Thu 12.11.2008 6:04 pm

Dehitay wrote:However, women are much more willing to keep talking to you if you have sex with them.


Wow. Here I thought we were talking about "quality" women. My (HUGE) mistake. If a girl like that is your idea of a quality dame, then I guess you get what you pay for.
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Re: "dating rules in japan"

Postby uberscheisse » Thu 12.11.2008 6:06 pm

i think one or two people may have misread or misinterpreted my plan/intentions.

to clarify - my post is not about getting laid. not to toot my own horn, but i can do that without much effort. if that was all i cared about, it's all i'd be doing and i wouldn't be asking strangers questions. i'm just not interested in that anymore.

someone made an insinuation that i'd be acting. i don't know how to do that, so it's not in the plan. i've got a pretty small brain, and all it can cope with is being myself on a fairly regular basis. :wink:

the lady in question has told me that she's very traditional. i'm very not traditional. we come from two different ends of that spectrum. i think that is what happened the last time i was in this situation, and as i said, it blew up in my face.

what my specific request for advice was was this - and maybe i should word it differently - for a japanese woman who hasn't had all that much experience with a foreign man, what are some social rules i should follow? what would be considered appropriate (by a fairly old-fashioned lady) on the first date, as far as physical contact, flirting, handholding, first kiss, etc.?

basically, what would a japanese man know about manners and what a lady expects that i don't?

in the end i'm going to do what feels natural and see how it pans out. a few pointers, anecdotes is all i'm looking for. perhaps the kind of story where a dude will say ""oh, i tried ____ with my wife on the first date, and 4 years later she said______ and we both laughed about what an ignorant baka-gaijin i was...".
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Re: "dating rules in japan"

Postby Dehitay » Thu 12.11.2008 6:08 pm

Sairana wrote:
Dehitay wrote:However, women are much more willing to keep talking to you if you have sex with them.


Wow. Here I thought we were talking about "quality" women. My (HUGE) mistake. If a girl like that is your idea of a quality dame, then I guess you get what you pay for.


Quality women aren't the same thing as quantity women. Women who have the decency to handle a relationship maturely are just as rare if not even more rare than men who can do so.
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Re: "dating rules in japan"

Postby Sairana » Thu 12.11.2008 6:11 pm

Dehitay wrote:
Sairana wrote:
Dehitay wrote:However, women are much more willing to keep talking to you if you have sex with them.


Wow. Here I thought we were talking about "quality" women. My (HUGE) mistake. If a girl like that is your idea of a quality dame, then I guess you get what you pay for.


Quality women aren't the same thing as quantity women. Women who have the decency to handle a relationship maturely are just as rare if not even more rare than men who can do so.


I fail to see what your statement has to do with MY statement, as I said nothing at all about quantity.

You've stated that girls you know are more likely to keep talking to you if you have sex with them. That's not a 'quality woman' to me. Any man who is OK with that, though, deserves what he gets.
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Re: "dating rules in japan"

Postby Dehitay » Thu 12.11.2008 6:31 pm

Sairana wrote:I fail to see what your statement has to do with MY statement, as I said nothing at all about quantity.

You've stated that girls you know are more likely to keep talking to you if you have sex with them. That's not a 'quality woman' to me. Any man who is OK with that, though, deserves what he gets.

Whether or not you mentioned how popular or unpopular quality girls are doesn't stop the fact that the lack of them causes men to give up on finding them rather commonly.

Also, I'm rather positive that you would also fall into the group of women who would talk more with a man if they were having sex with them. That percentage of women is over 99%. I'm not sure if you're single, dating, engaged, or married; but if you were at the point where you were having sex with your significant other, can you honestly say you wouldn't be talking more than if you weren't at that point?

Whether a woman falls into that norm which is practically a standard or not isn't really one of the qualities I care for. Hell, even whether or not they'll have sex on the first date isn't a quality I care about. I would just love it if the average girl was able to keep appointments, voice opinions, and stop running away from decisions.
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Re: "dating rules in japan"

Postby Sairana » Thu 12.11.2008 7:18 pm

Dehitay wrote:
Sairana wrote:I fail to see what your statement has to do with MY statement, as I said nothing at all about quantity.

You've stated that girls you know are more likely to keep talking to you if you have sex with them. That's not a 'quality woman' to me. Any man who is OK with that, though, deserves what he gets.

Whether or not you mentioned how popular or unpopular quality girls are doesn't stop the fact that the lack of them causes men to give up on finding them rather commonly.


... what? This conversation would be a lot easier if you picked a topic and stayed on it. Were we talking about the quantity and availability of women and how easy it is for a man to snag one? That part of the conversation must be in invisible posts.

Also, I'm rather positive that you would also fall into the group of women who would talk more with a man if they were having sex with them. That percentage of women is over 99%.


Hm. Thanks for the insight into the mind of a woman. I always thought I didn't call guys back when I found them uninteresting and not really my type. In reality, it's because they didn't get in my pants fast enough. Fascinating.

I'm not sure if you're single, dating, engaged, or married;

Divorced once. My first marriage was with a guy who wasted little time getting into my pants. We talked a lot. The divorce process took longer than the marriage lasted.

but if you were at the point where you were having sex with your significant other, can you honestly say you wouldn't be talking more than if you weren't at that point?

Too many... negatives.... brain hurts.
If you aren't interested enough to talk without being sexually active with each other, your relationship sucks. Yes. My first marriage sucked because it wasn't based on anything but shallow, stupid decisions.

I would just love it if the average girl was able to keep appointments, voice opinions, and stop running away from decisions.


And having sex with them will make them more punctual, opinionated, and decisive. Noted!
Last edited by Sairana on Thu 12.11.2008 7:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: "dating rules in japan"

Postby uberscheisse » Thu 12.11.2008 7:27 pm

d-d-d-d-d-d-iiiiiiigressin', folks.
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