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Heisig, RTK Experiment

Have a textbook or grammar book that you find particularly helpful? What about a learning tip to share with others?

Re: Heisig, RTK Experiment

Postby nukemarine » Mon 12.15.2008 10:20 am

Ah, yes, the infamous Tanuki spreadsheet. That thing has mysterious origins. It's professionally designed, and looks like it's meant to be incorporated with some testing system for various recognitions. Plus, it was entirely in Japanese (sentences, definitions, etc.). The poster showed up, linked to the spread sheet, then went away. Was there any follow up on this?

As for RTK, on RevTK forums someone put together a nice greasemonkey script called "RTKlite", which is the JLPT2 kanji with extras that are part of the primitives. It was my thinking one wanting to get into Japanese without doing 3 to 5 months with RTK two or three hours a day could do 1000 kanji in about a month or two (most common kanji at that).

For vocabulary, I'm going to have to pimp iKnow.com again. That site has been great for building vocabulary in my opinion. Just consistently review your learned words, add new words every day and you'll be surprised how far you get. I don't think I'd be advancing as fast (even though I think I'm going slow) if not for RTK. Yeah, some may not like that's it ordered using Newspaper frequency. However, by the time you get to 6000 words (well, soon to be 10,000 words) and all the associated sentences, I think you'll survive not knowing Neko formally till 1500 words in.
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Re: Heisig, RTK Experiment

Postby HarakoMeshi » Mon 12.15.2008 10:27 am

How far did you get with iKnow Nuke? I've tried iKnow but didn't dig into using it much. How does it compare with going through KO? I went through KO Vol 1 and I was happy with all the vocab I learned, so I'm going to do Vol 2. It gets easier to make progress as it ... progresses.
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Re: Heisig, RTK Experiment

Postby nukemarine » Mon 12.15.2008 8:20 pm

HarakoMeshi wrote:How far did you get with iKnow Nuke? I've tried iKnow but didn't dig into using it much. How does it compare with going through KO? I went through KO Vol 1 and I was happy with all the vocab I learned, so I'm going to do Vol 2. It gets easier to make progress as it ... progresses.


I'm up to 1200 items so far. I'd compare it to KO on how it gets easier as you go along. I like it better as the sentences are shorter, have the photos and audio, and do not limit the kanji to the 1100 in KO. It's been a pet peeve of mine to use resources that are "kanjified" to the native level. Hey, if you spend all the time with RTK, you want to get some mileage out of it.

I'll update the iKnow thread then.
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Re: Heisig, RTK Experiment

Postby Dustin » Tue 12.23.2008 11:30 pm

Wow, looking at my last post, i started slowing down a bit, adding no new kanji, and only doing the reviews schedules, not even clearing up my failed pile, and then I stopped altogether until 2 days ago, that is a full 2 weeks off.... Not very good when trying to push through a book like this.

I finally finished moving, got over my bronchitis, and slept when all was said and done and am now back on track with my studies, and looking back at my post i realized how long I was out of commission for!

I was at 674 ( just under 700 ) at the time of my last post, after pushing through several hundred late reviews and getting back on track I have added cards, taking me to about 817 kanji. I am just beginning for the night so I will have more by the time I go to sleep, but I am hoping to be done by the 1st if at all possible, i's quite a push, but there will still be a lot of review after that.

EDIT I am going to sleep now and hit 891, what a night, 144 per day to be done before the first, bets anyone?
My failsafe is the 11th, that will be the 2 month mark, even though I had 2 weeks off......
not too bad of a system so far....
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Re: Heisig, RTK Experiment

Postby two_heads_talking » Wed 12.24.2008 10:55 am

Dustin_Calgary wrote:
EDIT I am going to sleep now and hit 891, what a night, 144 per day to be done before the first, bets anyone?
My failsafe is the 11th, that will be the 2 month mark, even though I had 2 weeks off......
not too bad of a system so far....


I'd say cramming just to make your goal, isn't going to help at all. Re-establish your goal and go from there. I think learning to change mid and short term goals to establish a long term goal is much more important than shoveling 144 kanji a day into your head. if any of those kanji stick, it won't be very well.

Good luck either way.
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Re: Heisig, RTK Experiment

Postby Dustin » Wed 12.24.2008 1:55 pm

two_heads_talking wrote:
Dustin_Calgary wrote:
EDIT I am going to sleep now and hit 891, what a night, 144 per day to be done before the first, bets anyone?
My failsafe is the 11th, that will be the 2 month mark, even though I had 2 weeks off......
not too bad of a system so far....


I'd say cramming just to make your goal, isn't going to help at all. Re-establish your goal and go from there. I think learning to change mid and short term goals to establish a long term goal is much more important than shoveling 144 kanji a day into your head. if any of those kanji stick, it won't be very well.

Good luck either way.


I know your point well, but since I have just moved and have no work right now, it works best for me to cram them all now until the new year hits, at which point I will have much less time.

The most important part of the system is to only get it into your short term anyways, and then let the spaced repatition system take care of the rest, it will be a lot of review to keep them fresh, but that is ok.

Plus, I have a bit of a competition going with a friend of mine who started at the same time as me, I so far have a head start on him, but less disposeable time.

As far as Heisig goes, it's a great system, but the SRS ( Spaced Repetition System ) is in my opinion the most important thing I have learned in this experience so far.
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Re: Heisig, RTK Experiment

Postby furrykef » Wed 12.24.2008 2:34 pm

two_heads_talking wrote:if any of those kanji stick, it won't be very well.


That's what SRS systems are for. They keep showing you flash cards until they do stick, so it smooths out in the end.

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Re: Heisig, RTK Experiment

Postby Dustin » Thu 12.25.2008 4:39 am

995...

I won't be able to get 150 ish in per day regularly, not if I want to retain my sanity.
I have readjusted my goal for my failsafe date of Jan 11th, that will require just under 60 per day, a much more reasonable number.

This may flow into when my work starts up again, but that's ok, if it gets to much in the way I can readjust at that point.
The end goal is in sight though, just about to cross the 50% mark
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Re: Heisig, RTK Experiment

Postby two_heads_talking » Mon 12.29.2008 10:19 am

furrykef wrote:
two_heads_talking wrote:if any of those kanji stick, it won't be very well.


That's what SRS systems are for. They keep showing you flash cards until they do stick, so it smooths out in the end.

- Kef


I am completely familiar with SRS.. I used it myself.. 10 kanji an hour every day.. repeat each kanji (vocab in my case) every hour.. then repeat those every day for a week, every week for a month and every month for a year. after a years study the word(s) will be set... Or at least that is a variation of the SRS that we used, since missionaries are not really allowed much time each day for study and with only 2 months of study before going to Japan, you can see that it really helps accentuate the daily study routine without putting too much stress on "must learn 1000 kanji (vocab) by the end of the week." type attitudes.. Work at a comfortable pace and just keep adding in new stuff daily..
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Re: Heisig, RTK Experiment

Postby furrykef » Mon 12.29.2008 1:40 pm

With the system you used, what happened when you got the answer wrong? Did that card go back to the beginning of the process or did you just kinda shrug your shoulders?
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Re: Heisig, RTK Experiment

Postby two_heads_talking » Mon 12.29.2008 3:24 pm

furrykef wrote:With the system you used, what happened when you got the answer wrong? Did that card go back to the beginning of the process or did you just kinda shrug your shoulders?


it went back to the starting phase. starting with one hour.. However, if you manage the number of new words/kanji (whatever) say to a maximum of 15 or 25 kanji a day, and say 35 or 50 words a day, then there will be a very minute amount of words that ever go back to the "start" phase.
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Re: Heisig, RTK Experiment

Postby Dustin » Tue 12.30.2008 6:43 am

Well, not going as quickly as I hoped, not quite enough time to dedicate to do so, but hey, that's life with a wife and kids :D

Hit 1085/2042 tonight, I want to try to still do at least 60 per day to finish in a reasonably short timeframe, I could do more if it weren't for my time constraints, and picky method, but it works for me.

Past half is a great milestone, and I am having a way easier time putting together stories for the Kanji at this point that are easy to remember after doing so many of them. Seeing the count in the 4 digits while the remaining is in the 3 digits, now it's all downhill.

All in all, I am really enjoying the experience, it has changed the way I look at Kanji, and I recommend anyone to try it out if they are serious about learning long term.

At first I was not so sure about stopping all studying to do only RTK but have found myself doing just that, since it is moving so quickly, and when i look at vocab with a kanji I do not know i would rather study it after I have covered it in RTK and found myself pretty well not even wanting to use my resources yet.

Anyways, still going well, enjoying it, hopefully be done soon :D

**Yay my 200th post :mrgreen:
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Re: Heisig, RTK Experiment

Postby becki_kanou » Tue 12.30.2008 7:11 am

Good luck finishing RTK and congrats on 200 as well, there's another milestone for you! :D
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Re: Heisig, RTK Experiment

Postby jcdietz03 » Tue 12.30.2008 12:47 pm

Please, let's not turn this into a theory thread. We've already seen many many theory threads. This thread is supposed to be an experience thread. Let's not muddy the water and encourage the thread to lose its focus.
Could someone please post a link to one or more of these memory threads? I am having trouble finding them.
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Re: Heisig, RTK Experiment

Postby Sairana » Tue 12.30.2008 9:19 pm

jcdietz03 wrote:
Please, let's not turn this into a theory thread. We've already seen many many theory threads. This thread is supposed to be an experience thread. Let's not muddy the water and encourage the thread to lose its focus.
Could someone please post a link to one or more of these memory threads? I am having trouble finding them.


Memory threads? He's referring to the Heisig debates. Search for "heisig" and it should turn up a plethora of topics. Here's a hint: use "Advanced search" and click the radial option for "Display results as - Topics" instead of "Display results as - Posts". Pick anything about "Remembering Kanji" "Heisig" or "RTK" in the title that has more than two pages of responses, and you will get to see the circular debate for yourself
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