Difference between 下る and 下がる ???
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Difference between 下る and 下がる ???
I've first saw this in my kanji in mangaland book. 下がる (sagaru) means to descend 下る (kudaru) means to go down. Now Myself believe that (in english anyway...) to go down and to descend is about the same meaning. So if someone could clear this up for me and what each one is used for.
- two_heads_talking
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Re: Difference between 下る and 下がる ???
Hmm, are descend and go down different words? Then isn't it possible there are two different words with slightly similar meanings in Japanese too?
- Yudan Taiteki
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Re: Difference between 下る and 下がる ???
kudaru usually has the meaning of "going down" in the sense of leaving a major metropolitan place (like the capital) and going to the country, for instance. I'm not sure I've ever seen it used in modern Japanese, but it's used fairly often in classical Japanese, i.e. the famous "azuma-kudari" sections of the Ise Monogatari.kentaku_sama wrote:I've first saw this in my kanji in mangaland book. 下がる (sagaru) means to descend 下る (kudaru) means to go down. Now Myself believe that (in english anyway...) to go down and to descend is about the same meaning. So if someone could clear this up for me and what each one is used for.
There's also 下りる(おりる), which means something similar and overlaps with 降りる, but I would need to look at a J-J dictionary to work all this out.
-Chris Kern
Re: Difference between 下る and 下がる ???
You should probably use a dictionary.kentaku_sama wrote:下がる (sagaru) means to descend 下る (kudaru) means to go down...So if someone could clear this up for me and what each one is used for.
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Re: Difference between 下る and 下がる ???
I've seen it used in parking garages and train stations, labeling which road or stairway is reserved for those heading down.Yudan Taiteki wrote:kudaru usually has the meaning of "going down" in the sense of leaving a major metropolitan place (like the capital) and going to the country, for instance. I'm not sure I've ever seen it used in modern Japanese, but it's used fairly often in classical Japanese, i.e. the famous "azuma-kudari" sections of the Ise Monogatari.
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Re: Difference between 下る and 下がる ???
So sagaru means to descend,bring down,lower, make lower ect... as in: Lower the crate please. And Kudaru is used in a sense as in (elevator voice: "Going down...") or going lower in the country or downtown or something like that. (please correct me if I'm wrong) Would this apply to the word "Condescend" or the phrase "Tone it down" or "lower the lighting"?
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Re: Difference between 下る and 下がる ???
I am pretty sure you see it in Modern Japanese. Whenever you go down a stair at a train station or similar places.Yudan Taiteki wrote:kudaru usually has the meaning of "going down" in the sense of leaving a major metropolitan place (like the capital) and going to the country, for instance. I'm not sure I've ever seen it used in modern Japanese, but it's used fairly often in classical Japanese, i.e. the famous "azuma-kudari" sections of the Ise Monogatari.kentaku_sama wrote:I've first saw this in my kanji in mangaland book. 下がる (sagaru) means to descend 下る (kudaru) means to go down. Now Myself believe that (in english anyway...) to go down and to descend is about the same meaning. So if someone could clear this up for me and what each one is used for.
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Re: Difference between 下る and 下がる ???
"E.g.", not "i.e."Yudan Taiteki wrote:but it's used fairly often in classical Japanese, i.e. the famous "azuma-kudari" sections of the Ise Monogatari.

下がる is intransitive, meaning it cannot take an object, so it cannot be used in "lower the crate". The verb you'd be looking for in that case is 下げる (さげる), which is transitive. There are a lot of -aru/-eru pairs like this.kentaku_sama wrote:So sagaru means to descend,bring down,lower, make lower ect... as in: Lower the crate please. And Kudaru is used in a sense as in (elevator voice: "Going down...") or going lower in the country or downtown or something like that.
I think it could be just be an abbreviation of 下がる, like how 入り口 is often abbreviated 入口. But I could just as easily be completely wrong.keatonatron wrote:I've seen it used in parking garages and train stations, labeling which road or stairway is reserved for those heading down.

- Kef
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Re: Difference between 下る and 下がる ???
I think you are wrong.FurryKef wrote:I think it could be just be an abbreviation of 下がる, like how 入り口 is often abbreviated 入口. But I could just as easily be completely wrong.keatonatron wrote:I've seen it used in parking garages and train stations, labeling which road or stairway is reserved for those heading down.
- Kef
The direction for stairs are 下る and 上る, read as (kudaru and noboru).
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Re: Difference between 下る and 下がる ???
*shrug* OK. I was just sayin' it's hard to tell if you're only going by the written form; seeing 下る on a sign might not be the same thing as seeing 下る in a sentence. One cannot make too many assumptions. 
(And before you think it's silly that a sign might follow different orthographic standards, I've heard of elevators in Latin America with a button labeled "LLamar", on the logic that "ll" used to be considered its own letter... yet I've never seen or heard of "ll" capitalized that way anywhere else, either before or after "ll" lost its status as a single letter. It should be "Llamar".)

(And before you think it's silly that a sign might follow different orthographic standards, I've heard of elevators in Latin America with a button labeled "LLamar", on the logic that "ll" used to be considered its own letter... yet I've never seen or heard of "ll" capitalized that way anywhere else, either before or after "ll" lost its status as a single letter. It should be "Llamar".)
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- Yudan Taiteki
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Re: Difference between 下る and 下がる ???
The primary question is "What word do Japanese people use to express a down staircase/elevator?" The answer is くだる, and thus if you see 下る on a sign indicating a down staircase, it will be read くだる rather than さがる.furrykef wrote:*shrug* OK. I was just sayin' it's hard to tell if you're only going by the written form; seeing 下る on a sign might not be the same thing as seeing 下る in a sentence. One cannot make too many assumptions.
-Chris Kern
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Re: Difference between 下る and 下がる ???
I guess that answers that, then.
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