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JPT Importance & Native Language

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JPT Importance & Native Language

Postby Stone_Cold » Thu 01.01.2009 12:03 am

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Last edited by Stone_Cold on Thu 01.01.2009 3:26 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: JPT Importance & Native Language

Postby keatonatron » Thu 01.01.2009 1:59 am

Wow... I have no idea what you're asking.

Can you maybe choose 3 questions out of there and put them in a nice list form?

The first thing that came to my mind is, for what purpose do you need the label of "native speaker" or even "fluent"?

Native speaker means someone who learned the language as their primary language when growing up. If you were taught English as a child, and later learned another language, it's possible to obtain "native level" but you will never be a "native speaker".

Which, again, makes me wonder why it even matters what you can call yourself. If you see a job listing that says "native speakers only," no matter how good you are they probably won't let you apply, unless that language was the first one you learned. For school or military where they require fluency in order to apply for something, they will most likely have their own test to take. If they accept the JLPT, they will specifically say so.
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Re: JPT Importance & Native Language

Postby Stone_Cold » Thu 01.01.2009 2:21 am

This post wasn't a direct question. Native Language isn’t the main subject of this thread. The main subject’s how the military and universities inside the United States consider individuals with fluent knowledge of two foreign languages for enlistment or acceptance? Can an individual knowing two native languages still be credited and accepted? The United States military allows for an individual to get additional pay for being fluent in another language (http://www.goarmy.com). Many United States Universities require the knowledge of a foreign language. Most individuals learn a foreign language either in High School or in a Community College for applying in the future to a University requiring they know foreign language. Will the military and universities accept the JPT in the place of a Minor or Major degree in Japanese? Some peoples are lucky enough to learn two or more native languages. Chances are the parents and family knew these languages using them all together instead of just one (English and Spanish). Sorry if I confused anyone.

My Answer
I consider a native speaker someone who started learning the language/languages before they were barely able to speak and were surrounded with that language throughout their youth. I don't consider them a native speaker if they learned it later in childhood. Ex. John learns both English and Spanish from start at the same time while being surrounded by both languages. So I'd personally consider him a native speaker of both English and Spanish. The United States Military will most likely accept an individual that knows two native languages without classes and allow for extra pay. Nonetheless, the military will probably require a test. A university will likely accept them unless they provide their own proficiency test. Still that university might require them take prior classes for acceptance. Chances are most universities won't accept the JPT, but require classes unless the JPT was taken at an accredited university.


Note. Both acronyms and American native conversational English were used in this post. Personal translation will vary.
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Re: JPT Importance & Native Language

Postby Sairana » Thu 01.01.2009 5:25 am

Stone_Cold wrote:The main subject’s how the military and universities inside the United States consider individuals with fluent knowledge of two foreign languages for enlistment or acceptance?


You're posing this question as if it's an opinion question. It isn't.

The Military has tests for everything.
Universities have placement tests for everything.

The JLPT will not entitle you to an automatic degree, there are more things you must learn at a University than classes that are core to your Major or Minor area of study. Furthermore, the fact that you -already- know a second language does not weigh in for -acceptance- to universities, except perhaps to show that you an aptitude for learning things.

The United States Military will most likely accept an individual that knows two native languages without classes and allow for extra pay. Nonetheless, the military will probably require a test.


Yes, this is common sense.

university might require them take prior classes for acceptance. Chances are most universities won't accept the JPT,


"accept the JLPT" toward what end?

but require classes unless the JPT was taken at an accredited university.


You make it sound here like the test can be taken by anyone, anywhere. It is a strictly regulated test with specific test sites. There's no such thing as having to take it "at an accredited university". The test may be held at a University, or it may not be held at a University... in either case, it is administered by a committee designated to do so, not by the staff of any particular institution. You cannot proctor this test outside the official testing areas.

Your short answer is: The JLPT is not an official document. You can list it on applications and resumes the same way you would list any other "notable achievements" you have accumulated that might improve your value in the eyes of your prospective employer, educational establishment, or the military.
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Re: JPT Importance & Native Language

Postby nukemarine » Fri 01.02.2009 4:39 am

The military (US variant) will not pay you more just for know two languages well. First, it has to be a language they put a degree of need such as Farsi, Korean, Russian, Mandarin, etc. Being fluent in Spanish, Tagalog, or Japanese is not going net you more pay cause the military has either too many speakers (for Spanish), or not a pressing tactical need (Japanese). Yep, its a matter of supply and demand as is the case with most military bonuses.

Second, the test (DLPT - Defense Language Proficiency Test), does not care if you are native level fluent. It cares only how well you comprehend native level writing and dialogue ie how well you can read and listen. Your ability to speak and write are not looked at at all. In addition, your bonus will be based on the strength of your weaker area. Comprehending spoken Mandarin fluently will not get you a bonus at all if you cannot read it.

Reason I know this is two men that work with me did the test for Cantonese and Mandarin. However, it was their native language. Guess they can buy the beers with that extra 400 dollars a month.
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Re: JPT Importance & Native Language

Postby two_heads_talking » Fri 01.02.2009 2:17 pm

nukemarine wrote:The military (US variant) will not pay you more just for know two languages well. First, it has to be a language they put a degree of need such as Farsi, Korean, Russian, Mandarin, etc. Being fluent in Spanish, Tagalog, or Japanese is not going net you more pay cause the military has either too many speakers (for Spanish), or not a pressing tactical need (Japanese). Yep, its a matter of supply and demand as is the case with most military bonuses.

Second, the test (DLPT - Defense Language Proficiency Test), does not care if you are native level fluent. It cares only how well you comprehend native level writing and dialogue ie how well you can read and listen. Your ability to speak and write are not looked at at all. In addition, your bonus will be based on the strength of your weaker area. Comprehending spoken Mandarin fluently will not get you a bonus at all if you cannot read it.

Reason I know this is two men that work with me did the test for Cantonese and Mandarin. However, it was their native language. Guess they can buy the beers with that extra 400 dollars a month.


Sorry Nuke, but you do get extra pay for cat4 languages and it just so happens that Japanese is a level cat4 language.. I should know, I got payed extra for that language for 15 years. You get payed depending on how well you know said language.. I won't get into the levels. but if you are a 2-2-2 linguist you won't see any pay.. 2-3-2 will net you some pay, 2-3-3 will ass well. if you are a 3-3-3 then you'll see an even higher pay.. From my experience, 4-4-4 is all bu impossible unless you attended Japanese school and graduated from a Japanese college. 3-3-3 is considered to be fully fluent according to the Military testing.. Also, you must be a career linguist, in other words, just speaking a language in a non linguist slot will net you no FLPP pay.

here's a link to basic info.. http://www.military.com/benefits/milita ... ciency-pay The term is FLPP (pronounced like flip)

In order to learn a cat4 language one must score higher than 110 on a DLAB (Defense Language Aptitude Battery )
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Re: JPT Importance & Native Language

Postby nukemarine » Sat 01.03.2009 12:45 am

Yes, the problem with Japanese versus Mandarin is you have to do Japanese as your job in the military (hold the NEC or MOS). Not sure if you can qualify that as a bonus, considering it comes with your job. It's just that you net slightly more depending on fluency. With Mandarin or Russian, you can get the extra pay while doing some other job, such as the two I know that get it are electronic technicians. As I'm at 15 years, I won't be approved a rating move like that, so even if I gained level 3 in Japanese I net no extra bonuses. If I got Korean to a good level, I get extra bonuses. Weird system, but that's the military for you.

There's been a slight change up with the DLPT, going up to Level 5 if I recall correctly. A Lt Cmdr that just transferred to my ship is Level 3 (from the old version) while his wife is Level 4. Yeah, his wife is native Japanese though a US Citizen now. If I see him, I'll ask if he's taken the new one yet (or will).
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Re: JPT Importance & Native Language

Postby Stone_Cold » Sun 01.04.2009 4:29 pm

Thank you for providing useful information regarding the Japanese Proficiency Test. I wasn’t sure of how the U.S. military works with foreign languages and pay. Also, how universities requiring a foreign language accept students. This is helpful informazioni for me and others.
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Re: JPT Importance & Native Language

Postby john2 » Sat 01.10.2009 8:45 am

I’d define native as the level of fluency at which one can understand any given phrase or sentence.
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Re: JPT Importance & Native Language

Postby two_heads_talking » Mon 01.12.2009 3:17 pm

john2 wrote:I’d define native as the level of fluency at which one can understand any given phrase or sentence.


That's all fine and dandy, but I think we are speaking of something that is already defined..
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Re: JPT Importance & Native Language

Postby Mike Cash » Tue 01.13.2009 9:17 am

two_heads_talking wrote:
john2 wrote:I’d define native as the level of fluency at which one can understand any given phrase or sentence.


That's all fine and dandy, but I think we are speaking of something that is already defined..


He posted a cogent thought, presented with no spelling or syntax errors. Let us not just rush past this rarity. I'm going to contact the Information Superhighway Department and have them erect a commemorative roadside plaque.
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