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So frustrated; can't learn hiragana.

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Re: So frustrated; can't learn hiragana.

Postby furrykef » Fri 10.24.2008 7:56 pm

Well, I learned kana in a pretty short time -- I didn't bother measuring it and I don't think there was a very clean line between "don't know it yet" and "know it" -- but I haven't yet mastered it, of course. I'm well aware I can't read any kind of Japanese nearly as fast as I can read English. (This becomes most painfully obvious when I try to read a subtitle or something and it goes away after I've read a few characters...) But I can always produce a complete and correct chart for both hiragana and katakana from memory, so I'm self-sufficient with it, so to speak: I need no external resources to test my knowledge or improve other than working with actual Japanese text. When most people say they know kana, I think they're usually referring to this level of self-sufficiency, which I do think typically comes pretty fast for any alphabet or syllabary (Arabic may be an exception from what I hear).

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Re: So frustrated; can't learn hiragana.

Postby arbalest71 » Fri 10.24.2008 9:00 pm

Yudan Taiteki wrote:Well, as I said earlier in the thread, I guess I like to set the bar higher -- it took me a lot longer than a weekend to really feel comfortable reading and writing hiragana at a normal speed.


Yep- but you elided an important part of my post. In context it's clear, I think, that what I am saying is that you can quickly learn hiragana well enough that you won't ever have to look them up again, assuming that you start actually using them right away. I did mention that you should keep using them, until you read them as easily as Roman characters, and I didn't give a timeline for that. What I'm really saying is that you can cram them into your (fairly) short term memory in a day, and that by using them in the pursuit of other goals you'll learn them to the point that they're automatic. That was the point of my line about sub-vocalizing... Of course if you cram them all into your head and don't use them right away you'll forget them within a few days.

It's hard to remember now, but I think it probably took a month or so for me to read hiragana without any strain at all. And I was reading a _lot_ of Japanese at the time. So while I agree with you, what you're saying is not very relevant to what I was saying.
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Re: So frustrated; can't learn hiragana.

Postby epokw » Sun 12.07.2008 11:24 am

That's why kanji rocks. Definitely a lot easier to read and easier on the eye :lol:
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Re: So frustrated; can't learn hiragana.

Postby eungyung » Mon 12.08.2008 8:40 am

You might like to give Declan Software's ReadWrite Hiragana software a try.

ReadWrite Hiragana: Learn the Japanese Hiragana alphabet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Features and Benefits:
◊ Audio recordings of all hiragana pronunciations.
◊ Writing stroke order animations of all hiragana letters.
◊ Numerous examples of each letter with native audio.
◊ Flashcard review and exercises to aid memorization.
◊ Screenshots & more details here: http://www.declan-software.com/japanese
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Re: So frustrated; can't learn hiragana.

Postby Flik » Mon 01.05.2009 6:16 pm

Just learn one row at a time. For example, learn あいうえお on the first day and かきくけこ on the second. Even at the rate of 5 per day, it will not take that long to learn.
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Re: So frustrated; can't learn hiragana.

Postby Matazi » Fri 01.16.2009 12:16 am

My Japanese Coach for the DS helped me leaps and bounds when it came to learning how to recognize and write Hiragana. With the DS's capabilities, I was surprised how well it worked.

While the game itself doesn't replace a textbook, it definitely helps when it comes to recognition/writing.

Alternatively, give www.iknow.co.jp a shot (most likely already mentioned.) It doesn't help much with writing, but definitely helps with recognition and response.
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Re: So frustrated; can't learn hiragana.

Postby furrykef » Fri 01.16.2009 2:16 am

Matazi wrote:My Japanese Coach for the DS helped me leaps and bounds when it came to learning how to recognize and write Hiragana.


Er, I hope you're aware that My Japanese Coach has seriously screwed up stroke orders for some of the kana. ^^;
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Re: So frustrated; can't learn hiragana.

Postby Sairana » Fri 01.16.2009 4:50 am

furrykef wrote:
Matazi wrote:My Japanese Coach for the DS helped me leaps and bounds when it came to learning how to recognize and write Hiragana.


Er, I hope you're aware that My Japanese Coach has seriously screwed up stroke orders for some of the kana. ^^;


Only a couple. And most of em you can write normally even though it teaches you wrong. The only ones I encountered that it won't let you write it correctly are ノ and ワ. In the case of ワ, it shows you the right stroke order, but then only accepts a single stroke to write it.

So yeah... confirm with another source if using MJC for the DS when learning stroke orders. If it teaches you wrong, just learn it the right way and write it that way anyway. It will count as correct except in the cases noted above.
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Re: So frustrated; can't learn hiragana.

Postby Dustin » Fri 01.16.2009 5:28 am

Who thinks this game is worth the money?

I would need to ship as well since nowhere local carries it.
I am doubtful it would help me personally, but you never know....I hear some people RAVE about this thing
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Re: So frustrated; can't learn hiragana.

Postby Sairana » Fri 01.16.2009 6:03 am

Dustin_Calgary wrote:Who thinks this game is worth the money?

I would need to ship as well since nowhere local carries it.
I am doubtful it would help me personally, but you never know....I hear some people RAVE about this thing



My Japanese Coach? It's $30, ultra portable, and it claims to teach you 10K vocabulary words, with 12 minigames in which to practice them. That by itself is a worthwhile gamble, IMHO.

For grammar, not so much. The lessons are too brief, not offering enough explanation. Although, I could conceivably see someone using MJC to direct their studies; get more detailed explanations say, online or something for every new lesson and just apply it to the vocab MJC taught you. But that's outside the scope of the program.

If you don't already have a DS, then it's probably not worth the cost just for this game. Another nitpick I have is some of the games are romaji the whole time, like the spelling games. It may be that in later lessons, the spelling games stop giving you an english-letter keyboard and give you kana charts instead, but I'm not past lesson 50 yet. The other games that start out with romaji switch over to kana around lesson 30-ish, and kanji around 40-ish.

It forces you to start at lesson 11, where it begins basic grammar, even if you completely pass the "placement test". You only get to move onto the next lesson after you've played the minigames enough times to 'master' the current lesson's vocabulary, achieved through a point-award mechanic that works like a half-baked SRS. The grammar lessons, if you don't need them, are skipable just by paging through the text to get to the vocab lists.

There's a few annoyances regarding the minigames that use full sentences that could be troublesome for an actual beginner in Japanese, in that they tend to use grammar elements the game hasn't taught yet. But if you're just using the thing for vocab, it's not too bad.

I'm compiling a list of nitpicks and what I think are errors as I play through. When I hit lesson 100 (the final grammar lesson, only vocab after that), I was planning to post it on the forums. I thought A) it would help people who have the program, and B) it would enable people who don't have the program to help those that do. ^_^

Anyway.. that's my mini-review. It is subject to change based on my progression through it. :P
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Re: So frustrated; can't learn hiragana.

Postby furrykef » Fri 01.16.2009 6:52 am

Sairana wrote:Only a couple. And most of em you can write normally even though it teaches you wrong. The only ones I encountered that it won't let you write it correctly are ノ and ワ. In the case of ワ, it shows you the right stroke order, but then only accepts a single stroke to write it.


I've heard it also won't accept き and さ in handwritten style, instead forcing you to write them in printed style, with the last two strokes connected.
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Re: So frustrated; can't learn hiragana.

Postby Sairana » Fri 01.16.2009 7:16 am

furrykef wrote:
Sairana wrote:Only a couple. And most of em you can write normally even though it teaches you wrong. The only ones I encountered that it won't let you write it correctly are ノ and ワ. In the case of ワ, it shows you the right stroke order, but then only accepts a single stroke to write it.


I've heard it also won't accept き and さ in handwritten style, instead forcing you to write them in printed style, with the last two strokes connected.


Ah! Yes. That's true. Forgot that bit.
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Re: So frustrated; can't learn hiragana.

Postby two_heads_talking » Fri 01.16.2009 9:03 am

I bought the DS game for my daughter, she's not much interested in the hiragana yet, but she loves trying to duplicate the audio of words and such.. At 13, I don't know if it will excite her, bore her, or do nothing, but I picked it up for 20 dollars, so it wasn't such a huge investment.
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