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Casual Japanese site

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Casual Japanese site

Postby haru » Mon 11.07.2005 10:51 am

Hi i think this is the right place to put this, anyway.

Can someone tell what sites help people with casual Japanese, because so far i have only found the polite version and i wanted to learn a bit more casual.

Thanks in advance
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RE: Casual Japanese site

Postby AJBryant » Mon 11.07.2005 1:18 pm

You're better off learning the polite Japanese. That's *always* socially acceptable. Speaking informally or casually in the wrong circumstance can cause problems.

That's why *everyone* starts teaching with the polite level.


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RE: Casual Japanese site

Postby Harisenbon » Mon 11.07.2005 9:33 pm

I totally agree with Tony, polite Japanese is the way to go. However, if you do want to learn more casual Japanese I suggest reading Japanese books or comics that aren't aimed towards children. Children's comics are full of VERY rude phrases that cannot be used after the age of 12, so I recommend more serious stories if you want to learn casual Japanese.

Watching Japanese TV is also a good way to learn solid mid-level polite Japanese, depending on the show.
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RE: Casual Japanese site

Postby Budomaru » Thu 11.10.2005 11:38 am

Harisenbon wrote:
Watching Japanese TV is also a good way to learn solid mid-level polite Japanese, depending on the show.


what about Hard Gay? :D:p j/k
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RE: Casual Japanese site

Postby Mariya » Thu 11.10.2005 1:43 pm

Maybe he just wants reference, or wants to compare polite with casual. It's not necessary that he is going to speak it if he learns it. ;)
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RE: Casual Japanese site

Postby CajunCoder » Thu 11.10.2005 2:23 pm

Hm, my suggestions are to find a fluently speaking friend and ask them questions. Also, a decent, and very entertaining way to learn - even if you're a beginner, is to watch Anime and keep a note book handy. Focus as much as you can on the japanese, and when you hear words you dont know, but you think you can pinpoint, write them down, pause the show and plug them into a dictionary.
I've actually learned a lot of vocabulary that way.

Granted, you will definitly want to be careful to check up on any words you learn from anime before using them... But at anyrate, yes, it would be good to be able to understand casual japanese - even if it may not be appropriate to speak it.

That might not be the easiest way of learning, and certainly not structured though... Have you tried searching on the internet?
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RE: Casual Japanese site

Postby Harisenbon » Thu 11.10.2005 8:09 pm

I actually don't recommend learning from anime for any number of reasons, most of all that phrases that are used in anime are usually geared TOWARDS anime and children. Normal people talking like anime is not really acceptable after the age of 12.

Clay (I think) wrote an article on it in the article section of this page. It's a good read.
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RE: Casual Japanese site

Postby InsanityRanch » Thu 11.10.2005 9:14 pm

Hmmm. Well, I'm not a great fan of keeping things away from people in case they misuse them. OK, machine guns, maybe, but not words!

I also face exactly this problem, namely, I know some "medium polite" Japanese and would like to know the rest of the language. (Incidentally, I know LOTS of very rude English expressions, and they hardly ever pop out in inappropriate situations.) :P

I have had one short lived success in getting TWO Japanese friends together for conversation time. If you can manage that, it's definitely the way to go. Each of these ladies spoke MUCH more carefully to me than they did to each other! However, it is at least twice as hard to get two conversation partners at one time as it is to get them one on one. As I say, in our case the three-way meetings fell apart fairly quickly.

Other than that... I read novels and manga and, um, stuff that I think will contain kougo. I also shamelessly ask questions of Japanese people when I encounter kougo that I can't "translate" into Japanese I can understand. The problem is mostly that I don't encounter enough of it!

Obviously, the real way to learn casual Japanese is to move to Japan, but sadly... it's not always possible.
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RE: Casual Japanese site

Postby mandolin » Fri 11.11.2005 3:34 am

Since... most of the plain-ness and polite-ness happens with the verb (but sometimes adjectives?) you might find this site to be pretty helpful.

It's a verb conjugation site... it does a pretty good job, although I wish it had a little more explanation on some things and more examples. I'm not really familiar with the author's terminology.. and I can't tell the difference between when one would use a 'provisional' vs 'conditional' conjugation.

Still. It includes all plain forms, too. :)
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RE: Casual Japanese site

Postby Harisenbon » Fri 11.11.2005 9:13 pm

InsanityRanch wrote:
(Incidentally, I know LOTS of very rude English expressions, and they hardly ever pop out in inappropriate situations.) :P


That's because you're a native English speaker (I'm assuming). Native speakers can make the distinctions and changes necessary to their speech, but foreign learners do not often have the fluency in the language to be able to do so.

For example, in a business interview, or a meeting with your boss, one slip of 暑かった instead of 暑かったですね, and it's all over.

In my own experience, I live in a place where they say おる instead or いる, and みえる instead or いらしゃる. It is almost impossible for me to change my speech back to the "correct" way of speaking Japanese without really concentrating on it.

People speak how they learn, and forming good habits early on will serve you better than trying to fix them later in life.
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RE: Casual Japanese site

Postby InsanityRanch » Fri 11.11.2005 11:20 pm

The remark about English expressions was more or less a joke. Sorry!

I think if I had to do something like a job interview, or another situation where my performance had high stakes, I'd think about coaching. Or at the very least, the sort of intensive self-study needed for the JLPT or any other language performance challenge. Maybe it's because I made my living as a singer for awhile, but I absolutely believe in rehearsal, rehearsal and more rehearsal.

In any case, correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't a job interview a place to use keigo rather than the desu-masu speech learned in most classes?

(A possibly amusing story -- my teacher told me about a job interview she had when she got out of university. Apparently, she never said a word the entire time, other than "Hai, hai." I must have looked surprised, because she said, "Well, they weren't interested in what I thought after all!" She got the job.)

I do understand that Japanese is more situational than English. There's a message on another thread about the way one Japanese member talks to his friends, versus to someone older whom he doesn't know, versus the way he writes messages here. So Japanese requires a lot more than English in terms of adjusting one's manner of speaking to the moment at hand. (Or at least, that's what my Japanese friends say.)

But that seems to me to be part of what needs to be learned. Of course I will never use "casual speech used by young men around Tokyo" -- not even if I were to move to Japan. My gender and age make that impossible. Still, I'd like to understand it when I come across it, and maybe even be able to reproduce it as a joke.

I'd like to know as much as possible. I think that way, in the long run, I will make fewer mistakes than if I restrict myself to a subset of the language.

...which is probably a philosophical point as much as a practical one, so...

<shrug>

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RE: Casual Japanese site

Postby nprz » Sat 11.12.2005 12:55 am

There is nothing wrong with the polite version, but if you study the plain form of conjugations (http://www.guidetojapanese.org/) then you will be on your way to speaking casual. If you find a Japanese penpal (http://www.japan-guide.com/local/?aCAT=2) around your age then they will likely speak casually with you (after a few emails).

I think I agree with all the other posts on here as well.
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RE: Casual Japanese site

Postby haru » Sat 11.12.2005 7:51 am

ok i guess i shouldv'd said a bit more about my situation. I have been learning japanese (polite version) for about 2 years and i consider myself fluent, now when my japanese friends come over to hang out i always talk poitely to them and they don't like that.....well they mind it but they would prefer me to speak less formal to them like they do to each other.

Like i said in my first post i have check the internet for some site and only found a couple that teach casual japanese.

Anyway im not that serious in learning it, i was thinking it would be just something to do whenever i have time or something.
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RE: Casual Japanese site

Postby InsanityRanch » Sat 11.12.2005 3:16 pm

Hey all! Good news!

I just got an email saying that the friend who had dropped out of our three-way English Japanese exchange wants to start up again! I am so excitied, not only to see her (she is a really nice person), but because I will get to hear Japanese conversation -- in fact, in Netarousan's words, 適切な日本語 -- every week!

As I say, when I talk to either of them separately, they speak somewhat carefully so that I understand as easily as possible. That's not only kind, but sensible -- otherwise conversation lags. But when they speak to each other they speak normal Japanese, which I otherwise would seldom get to hear. I find that I understand only a bit less of what they say to each other than what they say to me, but often it's the crucial bits! So this is a wonderful learning experience and I am spinning around with joy.

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RE: Casual Japanese site

Postby Harisenbon » Sun 11.13.2005 1:18 am

haru wrote:
ok i guess i shouldv'd said a bit more about my situation. I have been learning japanese (polite version) for about 2 years and i consider myself fluent,.


I'm sure someone who is fluent would be able to speak in casual Japanese. I think you need to re-evaluate your idea of fluent.

I'm sorry if this comes off as rude, but unfortuantely you've hit one of my buttons. It irks me to no end when people have studied Japanese for a short amount of time, and declare themselves fluent. When you can best Dave Specter in Japanese, then we'll talk about fluency.

To speak casually, just conjugate all your verbs and adjectives into plain form. Problem solved.

As a small aside, I knew a girl who came to Japan and studied for 5 months, couldn't deal with the culture and left. When she went home she was telling everyone that she was fluent in Japanese. *grrrr*
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