Learn Japanese with JapanesePod101.com

View topic - Would this make learning kanji a little easier?

Would this make learning kanji a little easier?

Have a textbook or grammar book that you find particularly helpful? What about a learning tip to share with others?

Re: Would this make learning kanji a little easier?

Postby furrykef » Tue 03.31.2009 8:51 pm

Why are we still arguing about "idioms" when Yudan clearly said:

Yudan Taiteki wrote:That's one definition of "idiom" but the term I used was "idiomatic", which means "peculiar to or characteristic of a particular language or dialect." In linguistics the term is used just to mean "a language the way native speakers use it" and I guess that's how I was using it too.


...which is, by the way, a perfectly valid use for the term. Whether a given phrase is "an idiom" or not is rather aside from the point anyway.

- Kef
Founder of Learning Languages Through Video Games.
Also see my lang-8 journal, where you can help me practice Japanese (and Spanish, and Italian!)
User avatar
furrykef
 
Posts: 1572
Joined: Thu 01.10.2008 9:20 pm
Native language: Eggo (ワッフル語の方言)
Gender: Male

Re: Would this make learning kanji a little easier?

Postby HarakoMeshi » Tue 03.31.2009 9:22 pm

monkeykoder wrote:This may just be me but what I see is taking English idioms and trying to translate them into Japanese and saying you're getting "non-idioms". Specifically from my understanding of the word "idiom" we're talking about something peculiar to that language's normal way of doing things. So if "つける" is usually used for "turn on" then it isn't an idiom. I'm not saying I'm 100% correct this is just my interpretation of the word. All I'm trying to say is unless it breaks the Japanese rules for language it doesn't fit the classification of "idiom" by my understanding of the word.


When classifying things in a language then yes, "an idiom" is a phrase that is generally understood amongst native speakers to have meaning that is more (or different) than the sum of its parts.

However "unidiomatic" does not mean "not an idiom". In this case "unidiomatic" means that the sum of the parts does not add up to what you intend to say. It does not follow the way a native speaker would express something. It's something that would sound wrong, or make no sense at all to a native speaker.

You might learn that "つける" can mean "turn on" and use it correctly in this case, but that would be a lucky case. This works with very generic verbs. See if you can correctly say "answer the phone" if all you know is "answer" and "phone".

The examples I gave are just examples of what you might come up with if you don't learn the correct way to say things. A lot of the time if you just put words together without following a native speaker's example, you will produce something that a native would never say.

That's why you need to expose yourself to words used with examples and extra context as much as you can.
HarakoMeshi
 
Posts: 154
Joined: Thu 11.22.2007 8:46 pm

Re: Would this make learning kanji a little easier?

Postby monkeykoder » Tue 03.31.2009 9:40 pm

I'll concede to that as I completely agree with you (I just realised that we've been arguing over semantics which is one thing you should never argue about) I apologise.
monkeykoder
 
Posts: 113
Joined: Tue 05.13.2008 1:45 am
Native language: English
Gender: Male

Re: Would this make learning kanji a little easier?

Postby AJBryant » Wed 04.01.2009 12:08 am

monkeykoder wrote:I'll concede to that as I completely agree with you (I just realised that we've been arguing over semantics which is one thing you should never argue about) I apologise.


I'm going to have to add that to the list (so far: sex, politics, religion, and old Battlestar Galactica vs new Battlestar Galactica).
User avatar
AJBryant
Site Admin
 
Posts: 5313
Joined: Sun 10.09.2005 11:29 am
Location: Indiana
Native language: English
Gender: Male

Re: Would this make learning kanji a little easier?

Postby monkeykoder » Wed 04.01.2009 12:17 am

Gotta remember semantics arguments go nowhere almost as violently as a discussion about the major no-nos.
monkeykoder
 
Posts: 113
Joined: Tue 05.13.2008 1:45 am
Native language: English
Gender: Male

Previous

Return to Learning Materials Reviews & Language Learning tips

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 7 guests