Learning to read japanese books?

[kentaku_sama]

This would be my goal if I can't speak it. How awesome it would be to be able to buy a book online from japan with no english and understand it!! I'm way off from that point but I guess in a couple of years. I want to learn shamisen, I already know stuff about music so I think I can self teach my self it. But I;m not going to until a year or two. May'be by then I could read part of it, enough to understand what to do. What level of jlpt do you need to be able to pass to read most books from japan? I'm guessing at least 2.

[keatonatron]

What level of jlpt do you need to be able to pass to read most books from japan? I'm guessing at least 2.

Depends on the book.

With level 2 you could probably pick through a simple instructional book, if you constantly look up words in a dictionary.

For any kind of novel or literary work, though, you'd definately need level 1 (or better!)

[Mike Cash]

I couldn't pass Level 1 if my life depended on it. It has never stopped me from reading novels and nonfiction....without a dictionary.

[two_heads_talking]

I couldn't pass Level 1 if my life depended on it. It has never stopped me from reading novels and nonfiction....without a dictionary.

Very nicely put Mike.

[kentaku_sama]

Why would you need a dictionary? Can't you just know all the words?

[becki_kanou]

Know all the words?

If that's your goal, you're going to be at it a loooooooooooong time, my friend. I'd wager reading a good novel in your native tongue you still probably come across the occasional new word, no? (I was thrown for a loop by the word "pleaching" not too long ago.) And you've been speaking and reading your native language since you were a child, so to expect in a few short years of study to "know all the words" in a foreign language is not really a reasonable goal.

[clay]

After you have learned basic grammar and have a beginner's vocabulary, you may want to start with some manga (especially short stories or 4 koma comics). There's usually a lot of slang, but with the visual clues, it can be a good way for even the beginner to learn spoken Japanese while reading!

[yukamina]

I don't think JLPT is a good measure for reading novels. At JLPT2, you won't have enough kanji, but both level 2 and 1 are full of vocab I don't think will be used in novels. For example, I can read simple novels, and I can understand most of Soseki's Kokoro, but there are words and grammar on JLPT2 I haven't studied at all. On the other hand, there's a ton of words I've learned from reading that aren't on any JLPT level.

If you want to read books, I recommend being at an intermediate level in terms of grammar and vocab, and 1500-2000 kanji. Then you can learn the rest as you come across it.

[two_heads_talking]

Why would you need a dictionary? Can't you just know all the words?

I don't think it's possible to know all the words in your native tongue let alone in another tongue, even if you applied yourself for 100 years..

[astaroth]

Why would you need a dictionary? Can't you just know all the words?

Eventually. I guess. But I'm a physicist and eventually for us means after an infinite amount of time.
So I guess one never knows all the words. After living in US for 6+ more years I can read novels, newspaper, and watch a movie without help of a dictionary (or subtitles), though I still encounter a word I don't know from time to time but I can usually infer the meaning from the context.
I think two years to be able to read novels and newspapers in a language you just started studying is a bit on the short side.
Obviously that shouldn't discourage you from your studies, but just simply put that in a perspective.

manga (especially short stories or 4 koma comics).

Sorry, clay. What's 4koma?

[richvh]

4 koma manga = 4 panel comic strips. Essentially newspaper comic strip format. (They're laid out vertically, so the panel size is less flexible than in American comic strips.)

[astaroth]

I see. Something like Calvin and Hobbes (I love Calvin and Hobbes).
Is it possible to find 4 koma manga not in newspapers? On the internet or in manga?

[clay]

Is it possible to find 4 koma manga not in newspapers?

Absolutely. Look for ギャグ漫画 gyagu manga. I was thinking about Crayon Shinchan when I wrote that above. (for example here) I guess it isn't technically a 4 koma comic since it has more than 4 panels, but it is in the same spirit and short enough.

[Hyperworm]

あずまんが大王 and らき☆すた are two other notable examples.

I read Japanese novels and I don't think I could pass JLPT1 yet. I can follow along all right without a dictionary, but I feel like I'm missing out on a lot if I don't keep looking up words. I still have a way to go yet. >_>

[two_heads_talking]

Is it possible to find 4 koma manga not in newspapers?

Absolutely. Look for ギャグ漫画 gyagu manga. I was thinking about Crayon Shinchan when I wrote that above. (for example here) I guess it isn't technically a 4 koma comic since it has more than 4 panels, but it is in the same spirit and short enough.

I still have a hard time figureing out which way to read those.. right to left? left to right? top to bottom etc.. usually, after 2 or 3 starts, I get it right.. lol

traditionally it's top to bottom, right to left correct?