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How well does rosetta stone work?

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How well does rosetta stone work?

Postby kentaku_sama » Thu 04.30.2009 12:30 am

I was going to get Rosetta stone Japanese. I wonder how well it works. I've tried it and thought it was fun, I mean it's actually a software that gives you sentences in some awkward context instead of plain beginner stuff. :

ex:

Most text books: ボールをテベルの上にあります。 
Rosetta stone:  テベルの上に、 ボール。       

Both mean the ball is on top of the table. Nothing wrong with the first one, it's just natives tend to warp sentences to what ever comes out naturally.

Has anyone else used it? I'm also going to use a kanji text book and genki text book and work to aid in my study. hopefully Rosetta stone will make my speaking and listening skills better. 
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Re: How well does rosetta stone work?

Postby becki_kanou » Thu 04.30.2009 1:07 am

kentaku_sama wrote:I was going to get Rosetta stone Japanese. I wonder how well it works. I've tried it and thought it was fun, I mean it's actually a software that gives you sentences in some awkward context instead of plain beginner stuff. :
ex:

Most text books: ボールをテベルの上にあります。 
Rosetta stone:  テベルの上に、 ボール。       

Both mean the ball is on top of the table. Nothing wrong with the first one, it's just natives tend to warp sentences to what ever comes out naturally.


First a note: both sentences above have small errors.
The first sentence should be ボールテーブルの上にあります。
The second is not really a valid sentence; it needs to be either: テーブルの上にボールがあります。
or
テーブルの上ボール; which is not a sentence, but a noun and a modifying phrase (the ball on the table)

Has anyone else used it? I'm also going to use a kanji text book and genki text book and work to aid in my study. hopefully Rosetta stone will make my speaking and listening skills better.

I seem to recall a few threads on the pros and cons of Rosette Stone, here you go.

It never hurts to try the search function on topics like this. :D
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Re: How well does rosetta stone work?

Postby kentaku_sama » Thu 04.30.2009 11:00 am

I don't know. It seems fast, also I read that a child can speak the language but won't know grammar rules. I wouldn't care!
If I can speak/read fluently that's good enough for me. I can use textbooks to learn new concepts and stuff. Basically I think it would work.
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Re: How well does rosetta stone work?

Postby NocturnalOcean » Thu 04.30.2009 11:08 am

The problem is that you are not a child. You kinda missed those 3-4 years from being born to be able to speak, living in a native Japanese environment,
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Re: How well does rosetta stone work?

Postby JaySee » Thu 04.30.2009 11:10 am

kentaku_sama wrote:I don't know. It seems fast, also I read that a child can speak the language but won't know grammar rules. I wouldn't care!
If I can speak/read fluently that's good enough for me. I can use textbooks to learn new concepts and stuff. Basically I think it would work.


I'm not really sure what exactly you're trying to say here, but the situation of a child learning his or her first language is completely different from the situation of an adult trying to learn a second language. If you try to learn a second language the same way you did your first, you'll fail.

I know some people claim that studying grammar isn't really necessary, as long as you just immerse yourself as much as you can into an environment in which the language you're learning is spoken - I think this is what the AJATT guy more or less advocates - but I really have my doubts about how well this would work.
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Re: How well does rosetta stone work?

Postby kentaku_sama » Thu 04.30.2009 3:20 pm

I'm not really sure what exactly you're trying to say here, but the situation of a child learning his or her first language is completely different from the situation of an adult trying to learn a second language. If you try to learn a second language the same way you did your first, you'll fail



I'm not an adult yet though... And dang! I can't go to japan because I live in north Carolina! It's soooo expensive to go to California then go to japan and live there for a while. I really want to, it's just unlikely.
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Re: How well does rosetta stone work?

Postby JaySee » Thu 04.30.2009 3:33 pm

The fact that you're not an adult yet is not the point. The point is that you have passed the age until which you can learn a language and become a native speaker of it effortlessly just by immersion (the way children learn their first language - the way you learnt English). This means that if you want to be able to speak a new language now, you will have to study and put in effort, and learning grammar is a part of that. There aren't really any shortcuts.
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Re: How well does rosetta stone work?

Postby monkeykoder » Thu 04.30.2009 4:26 pm

NocturnalOcean wrote:The problem is that you are not a child. You kinda missed those 3-4 years from being born to be able to speak, living in a native Japanese environment,


I guess that depends on what you define speaking as. My son could convey most thoughts to me by the time he was 2.

JaySee wrote:The fact that you're not an adult yet is not the point. The point is that you have passed the age until which you can learn a language and become a native speaker of it effortlessly just by immersion (the way children learn their first language - the way you learnt English). This means that if you want to be able to speak a new language now, you will have to study and put in effort, and learning grammar is a part of that. There aren't really any shortcuts.


I have to wonder if any studies have been done to show that an adult CAN'T learn a language in much the same way as a child. I'm not saying they can but I haven't really seen anything contrary to that (P.S. a child does not learn a language effortlessly it takes much work, coaching, and frustration my little boy still gets mad when he can't remember or think of how to say something).
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Re: How well does rosetta stone work?

Postby Yudan Taiteki » Thu 04.30.2009 5:13 pm

monkeykoder wrote:
NocturnalOcean wrote:The problem is that you are not a child. You kinda missed those 3-4 years from being born to be able to speak, living in a native Japanese environment,


I guess that depends on what you define speaking as. My son could convey most thoughts to me by the time he was 2.


Typically the 3-4 year figure is for a child to master all the grammar of their native language (with the exception of some structures restricted to formal or written language). Children can usually begin expressing themselves before that.

I have to wonder if any studies have been done to show that an adult CAN'T learn a language in much the same way as a child.


There's no way to literally prove that an adult can't learn a language in the same way as a child, but given all that we know about the way that children do learn language, the "critical period hypothesis", at least in the broad sense, is almost certainly correct. Children are able to learn an enormous amount of grammar and vocabulary from very poor quality input, with no coaching or correction, and in an extraordinarily short amount of time -- and all this at a time when they can't use the bathroom by themselves.

Sometimes people will claim that adults can learn languages in the same way as children but typically the people making those claims have misconceptions about child language learning that render their claims baseless. (For instance, one very common misconception of child language learning is that children are able to learn fast because they're not afraid to speak and make mistakes; in fact, copious research has shown that making mistakes has little or nothing to do with child language learning and even children who are born mute can learn language and then immediately begin using it if their muteness is corrected.)

(Part of the problem is that most people do not understand the difference between language *acquisition* and learning the educated/prestige dialect of a language, which is what is done in school.)
Last edited by Yudan Taiteki on Thu 04.30.2009 6:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: How well does rosetta stone work?

Postby Forgetmaenot » Thu 04.30.2009 6:27 pm

I think its funny you guys say this cause the first things I looked for was children's programs to Learn Japanese I looked for Sesame street first as its bilingual and what I had as a child children's games online etc then I seek out each new thing I find I stumble around and listen here and there I take the free magazines I can find and I can rent shows from a local store and use my adult skills to help me according to japanese coach in less than 2 years time i'm at japanese sophomore level but verb conjugation is still a problem and sometimes pronunciation (more speaking fast enough and remembering it's not english! than anything) I think probably the best approach would be just dump somebody in the country and let them try to find their way back out desperation leads to learning.It's harder to learn it when you don't need it for something or aren't interacting with someone else who speaks it.
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Re: How well does rosetta stone work?

Postby JaySee » Thu 04.30.2009 6:48 pm

monkeykoder wrote:I have to wonder if any studies have been done to show that an adult CAN'T learn a language in much the same way as a child. I'm not saying they can but I haven't really seen anything contrary to that (P.S. a child does not learn a language effortlessly it takes much work, coaching, and frustration my little boy still gets mad when he can't remember or think of how to say something).


Well, if you would take an adult native speaker of language A and put him or her in an environment where only language B is spoken without any kind of help, I'm not saying he won't learn language B at all, it would just take him a lot more time and effort than it would a child, and he would never learn it as perfectly as the child. Immersion isn't bad, but not complementing immersion by using textbooks or taking classes would hinder your progress quite significantly, I think.

It's a misconception to think that active coaching is what makes a child acquire their language, because this is not true. Sure, a child will make many mistakes at first, but these will likely all be ironed out by the time he gets older, even if he's not actively taught or corrected. He or she just needs to be exposed to language, that's all. This misconception too has to do with what Yudan mentioned about the difference between language acquisition and the prestige dialect.

Also, Yudan, I think you're misquoting me in your previous post. :P
Last edited by JaySee on Thu 04.30.2009 6:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: How well does rosetta stone work?

Postby Yudan Taiteki » Thu 04.30.2009 6:54 pm

JaySee wrote:Also, Yudan, I think you're misquoting me in your previous post. :P


Whoops, sorry.
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Re: How well does rosetta stone work?

Postby nukemarine » Fri 05.01.2009 3:57 am

If you're in the mood for paying 400 dollars for a program that's does maybe 10% of what you can get for free using: Anki (or mnemosyne or susuru) SRS program, Tae Kim (or Genki, or UBJG, or JFE) grammar sentences, and smart.fm (or KO2001 or Tanuki) vocabulary sentences; then go ahead and pay for it.

Other than being slow, using a cookie cutter approach, completely ignoring the benefits your own language offers to learning a new one, and helping only short term retention of terms, it's ok.

Please note: The above criticism applies only for the Japanese portion of Rosetta Stone. I do not know how prolific the online learning materials are available for other languages.
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Re: How well does rosetta stone work?

Postby kriskraf » Fri 06.05.2009 1:40 am

I can tell you yes it work’s, I work for Rosetta stone and have used it my self. If you go to www.rosettastone.com you can get a free demo cd to let you try any of the 31 language Rosetta stone has to offer. They also give you a 6 mouth full money back guarantee even if you open it in you can return it any time with in 6 mouths for a full refunded.

It works by association, like when your mother shoed you a ball and then said the word ball, if you spend at lest a hour a day every day mon-fri for 6 mouths you will be practically fluent in the language. It’s all computer baste and there is no translation (because you really don’t learn by memorization) I promise you it works. Look on line and you will see a list of our kiosk, if you come to one of them we will show you the full program.
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Re: How well does rosetta stone work?

Postby kriskraf » Fri 06.05.2009 1:43 am

And I will tell you on June 12th 2009 we are having a suppress sail of $100 off, tell the sales associate you want the sail of code K100
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