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Creating kanji or chinese symbols as an art-form

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Re: Creating kanji or chinese symbols as an art-form

Postby kentaku_sama » Mon 05.04.2009 5:20 pm

I've got some more: Image

Note that I have been practicing and observing the porportions of the kanji on the computer and these look better than the others.

Note that the KUN readings are readings used in japanese words and ON readings can be used to write american and foreign names in kanji. For example the first symbol "1" is combined with another kanji with a reading of "rin" so if
1 is put beside another kanji with the reading of "rin" is makes "Kasurin" which is "Katherine". Also the first kanji can be combined with another symbol to mean "cleaning" hence the kun reading "くりにん".  
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Re: Creating kanji or chinese symbols as an art-form

Postby AJBryant » Mon 05.04.2009 9:38 pm

I give up.
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Re: Creating kanji or chinese symbols as an art-form

Postby furrykef » Tue 05.05.2009 12:37 am

You're still just semi-randomly smashing radicals together to make characters. The Chinese did not make characters the way you're doing it. Well, maybe #1 and #3 are self-explanatory, but #2 and #4 need some explanation before we can 'buy' it.

kentaku_sama wrote:Note that I have been practicing and observing the porportions of the kanji on the computer and these look better than the others.


Ehhh... #2 doesn't look right to me at all. And they're all jaggy.

Note that the KUN readings are readings used in japanese words and ON readings can be used to write american and foreign names in kanji.


Some of your on'yomi cannot possibly be on'yomi. As I've already said, on'yomi are derived from Chinese pronunciations of kanji, so they must sound like they came from Chinese. フライド would be a kun'yomi if anything. I've also never seen a two-syllable on'yomi that ends with "su", "zu", or "mu". On'yomi are always one syllable long (note that I'm counting syllables here, not morae, so things like "ai", "un", and "kyuu" count as one syllable), except for two-syllable on'yomi ending with "shi", "chi", "ku", or "tsu". If it's more than one syllable and ends with anything else, it's not an on'yomi.

Frankly, I think it's pretty pointless to invent an on'yomi unless 1) your kanji uses a phonetic element that is the basis of that on'yomi, or 2) you have some understanding of Chinese and can invent a complete etymology of the word/character.

Also, to be honest, nobody is going to care what the on'yomi/kun'yomi are unless the readings explain the kanji itself (as in AJBryant's examples). I could make up a kanji and say the reading is ばば or きり or ドン or whatever... it's just a sound, what makes one sound different from any other, really?

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Re: Creating kanji or chinese symbols as an art-form

Postby Mike Cash » Wed 05.06.2009 6:07 am

When the Japanese invent kanji (栃 for example), they don't invent "on" readings for them.....that would be stupid.

This sort of thing is a fun little brain exercise to while away a few idle moments, but I do hope that is all you're using it for.
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Re: Creating kanji or chinese symbols as an art-form

Postby nukemarine » Wed 05.06.2009 6:27 am

Mike Cash wrote:When the Japanese invent kanji (栃 for example), they don't invent "on" readings for them.....that would be stupid.

This sort of thing is a fun little brain exercise to while away a few idle moments, but I do hope that is all you're using it for.


I wonder if this is how Klingon developed?
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Re: Creating kanji or chinese symbols as an art-form

Postby astaroth » Wed 05.06.2009 7:32 am

kinda
In the first movie they wanted something that wouldn't have sounded like random sounds but more like natural language. The actor who played Scotty created a few words and gave a basic idea of what kind of sound the language was supposed to have, than in later movies and in particular in The Next Generation created a grammar around it ... then the thing got out of control and one can play word games, whose name in English I don't know, in Klingon.

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Re: Creating kanji or chinese symbols as an art-form

Postby kurisuto » Wed 05.06.2009 1:33 pm

Mike Cash wrote:When the Japanese invent kanji (栃 for example), they don't invent "on" readings for them.....that would be stupid.


What about 腺 for instance ?
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Re: Creating kanji or chinese symbols as an art-form

Postby AJBryant » Wed 05.06.2009 1:59 pm

kurisuto wrote:
Mike Cash wrote:When the Japanese invent kanji (栃 for example), they don't invent "on" readings for them.....that would be stupid.


What about 腺 for instance ?


I don't get the point you're trying to make.

腺 Japanese
On: せん (sen)
Kun: せん (sen)

腺 Korean
(hangeul 선, revised seon, McCune-Reischauer sŏn, Yale sen)

腺 Mandarin
(pinyin xiàn (xian4), Wade-Giles hsien4)

腺 Cantonese
(Yale sin3)
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Re: Creating kanji or chinese symbols as an art-form

Postby kurisuto » Wed 05.06.2009 2:15 pm

Well, I recently read this article, which lists 腺 (the English article lists it too as a kokuji. Is it possible that the other countries borrowed from the Japanese or is it simply a mistake ?)

Anyways, maybe 働 is a better example ?
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Re: Creating kanji or chinese symbols as an art-form

Postby JaySee » Wed 05.06.2009 2:44 pm

Kokuji in general don't have on-yomi, but there are a couple of exeptions where an on-yomi was invented to be used alongside the kun-yomi (such as 働, which has an on-yomi based on 動).

As for 腺, this character (along with some others) was "西洋文明の影響で近代に作られた", according to that wikipedia article. During the Meiji period when calques were in many cases still preferred over transcriptions for loan words from the West, many of these Japanese-made calques were subsequently also adopted by the Chinese and Koreans (along with the kokuji, if they used any).

Coincidentally, according to that same article 働 has also been introduced into Chinese and Korean, the pronunciation of the character being based on the that of 動 in the respective languages. I guess the same thing happened to 腺, though I don't really know exactly on what character its on-yomi was based.
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Re: Creating kanji or chinese symbols as an art-form

Postby kurisuto » Wed 05.06.2009 3:15 pm

:oops: All in the same article (I have about the same memory as a gold fish) !

Anyways, I don't find it ridiculous to invent on readings for new kanji : after all, it's more practical if you want to use them in compound words. However, I wonder whether the name "on'yomi" would still fit, but "kun" would be weird too... Maybe simply 熟語読み ?
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Re: Creating kanji or chinese symbols as an art-form

Postby furrykef » Wed 05.06.2009 8:31 pm

kurisuto wrote:However, I wonder whether the name "on'yomi" would still fit, but "kun" would be weird too...


Well, kanji are part phonetic in the first place (in Chinese and in on'yomi), and on'yomi means "sound reading", so it seems natural enough that a borrowed phonetic element would have an on'yomi. I don't see anything wrong with calling it that. I guess that might be the special exception to the rule I said above that on'yomi have to come directly from Chinese. :)

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Re: Creating kanji or chinese symbols as an art-form

Postby Yudan Taiteki » Wed 05.06.2009 8:55 pm

In practice I think any reading that is going to be used in compounds will be a 熟字訓, no matter where it comes from -- even when words nowadays are taken from Chinese like 辣油, 飲茶, 餃子, the readings don't become new on-yomi. Or at least I don't think you're going to find a dictionary that lists ザ as an on-yomi of 子 or ヤム as an on-yomi of 飲.
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Re: Creating kanji or chinese symbols as an art-form

Postby kurisuto » Thu 05.07.2009 7:15 pm

Furrykefさん、Yudanさん、ご回答ありがとうございました。

(and btw, I knew almost all characters from Dragon Ball Z had a name related to food : now I know where Yamcha comes from. Thanks for that too :) )
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Re: Creating kanji or chinese symbols as an art-form

Postby Yudan Taiteki » Thu 05.07.2009 9:09 pm

I remember asking people what いんちゃ was, and nobody knew what I was talking about -- finally I wrote the characters down and figured out what it was.
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