Yudan Taiteki wrote:I have rarely seen this intolerance towards mistakes that you mention. I have, in the past, criticized people for making mistakes in *responding* to questions that were clearly well beyond their experience level, because I feel strongly that the reliability of the entire forum suffers when people can't trust the answers they receive to their questions*. But I do not generally see people here criticizing beginners for making mistakes in their questions or attempts -- in fact, this is one of the most helpful forums I've ever seen for beginners. I think it's very unfair of you to make this blanket characterization when there are many people who spend a long time typing up posts to help people (beginners and beyond).
Perhaps it would help if, rather than making these veiled snipes at people, you would point out specific threads where the responses bothered you -- I would suggest opening a thread to discuss this issue publicly if it bothers you so much. I don't think adding some additional smilies is going to make people feel more comfortable about making mistakes on the forum if it really is as mean and serious as you seem to think.
I take some offense to your tone here; I've made over 5000 posts to this forum (second only to richvh) and I like to think that I have contributed to people's Japanese learning, and to have one of the site administrators make such vague, insulting characterizations of the long-time forum posters makes me wonder whether this site is really where I should be spending my time anymore.
This isn't an attack on you at all.
I am honestly sorry if it came across that way. Almost everyone here is very helpful the vast majority of the time, if not all the time. Almost everyone is very friendly and goes out of their way to welcome people and be helpful etc. However, sometimes a few people people, even moderators themselves, happen to take jabs at newbies... maybe out of a sense of frustration, or they're just having a bad day... I don't know... but it happens.
http://thejapanesepage.com/forum/viewto ... 16&t=13253
There's one from just a few days ago where I thought the response was rude and completely unhelpful, from a moderator.
They're not often that rude (and that one isn't terrible of course), but many do have the general air of condescension towards people making newbie mistakes, or not reading all of the FAQ, searching the whole site etc, before posting.
I know this is a recurrent theme, but it's one that leads to people being afraid to post anything because they feel like they must read everything on the site and become much more than a beginner before they can post without being reprimanded for making a common newbie mistake, or asking a question that is answered in some particular page somewhere on the website or the forum.
Both Clay and myself have received messages in the past from users who felt this way and who decided to leave the site permanently, and I've had several people say that they really only come in the chat anymore because of this general vibe from the forum, and these people are far more skilled than I am. One of them humorously keeps getting mistaken for being a Japanese native by other Japanese that come on the chat, even though Japanese is his third language, and English his second... and yet he still feels that bit of discomfort in the forum.
I didn't mean this to turn into a fight or spread bad feelings... but this has been a serious issue to me for a long time now. I understand that people think these icons are too big and too animated etc... but I'd rather focus on that than on arguing about who is at fault for what here. I feel uncomfortable feeling like I'm airing dirty laundry here.
If people really feel like these would be detrimental to the site then I guess I'd just have to figure something else out... but I'm trying to weigh the options right now and get a number of opinions.... and I guess my personality as a debater tends to creep in a little when it comes to defending my point of view.
Again, my apologies, I really didn't mean to offend you at all.