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Part of a conversation

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Part of a conversation

Postby lonelytraveler8 » Wed 08.12.2009 4:42 pm

Hello, I've been having some small conversations in Japanese with someone and I'm having trouble understanding a few things. I can get the general idea for the most part (with the help of a dictionary), but the grammar is beyond my level at the moment.

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「Removed Quote」

My guess here is that I'm being asked if I go to a private or state university, but I don't know what 「どっちに 」 means. 「いってるの」 is something I've never seen before, either. Also, is か a particle used to say "or?"

「Removed Quote」

I just want to clarify one thing here. 「日本では」 is using two particles, correct? One to mark Japan as the topic and the place?

「Removed Quote」

「自分」 - I understand this, with the help of a dictionary, to mean myself and other similar words. But I don't understand the use of で. 「勉強するのと」 - I don't know what のと means here, either. 「教えてもらうのは」 - This part is a little confusing, too. I'm not completely sure if it's part of どちら or not since I don't know what どちら means. But I think 「教えてもらうのは」 has something to do with receiving instruction (teaching), but I don't know what the のは is for. My guess is that は is for marking it the topic...but の...?

My overall guess for what the last sentence means is: "You study (to teach) yourself, but is the instruction you receive at college good?"

Thanks for the help. :D
Last edited by lonelytraveler8 on Wed 08.12.2009 11:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Part of a conversation

Postby Yudan Taiteki » Wed 08.12.2009 4:59 pm

What dictionary are you using? I can't believe that any dictionary doesn't have どちら in it.

XとY(と)(は) followed by どちら means "Between X and Y, which one..." どっち is a variant of どちら.

Also it's generally against the rules to post private communication without asking the person.
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Re: Part of a conversation

Postby keatonatron » Wed 08.12.2009 7:15 pm

Read this entire siteand then come back to trying a conversation in Japanese. You'll find a lot more things make sense :wink:

(In other words, I think you're trying too much too soon)
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Re: Part of a conversation

Postby lonelytraveler8 » Wed 08.12.2009 7:39 pm

I didn't know it would necessarily against the rules, but as a courtesy I wouldn't normally post part of a conversation. However, I figured the topic of the conversation here wasn't personal in any way.

I also must apologize about どちら. I was able to look up that previously, but I had it confused with どっちら, which did not show up. So thanks for the explanation on that.

@keatonatron
I realize I'm going to see things I don't understand, but the person I'm speaking with is able to speak English and only very small parts of the conversation are in Japanese. For the most part, I'll write something in Japanese where I'm able to and then the rest will be in English, and as the response will be the same way - Japanese in response to my Japanese and English elsewhere.

I'm in the process of studying grammar, but, although it's not through that website, I simply don't want to wait until I know quite so much before I start practicing what I already know in natural conversation. I just don't try to use what I don't know. I obviously can't help the responses, though. I can always ask the person I'm talking to what something means, but I felt I would get more thorough explanations here. I apologize if there were any issues here.

Edit: I responded to the person to the best of my ability and indicated the I didn't understand everything completely. So nobody should respond with more help if they want to. I do appreciate what's already been said. I don't want to offend anyone or make anyone think they offended me.
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Re: Part of a conversation

Postby coco » Wed 08.12.2009 8:30 pm

It doesn't matter whether or not the topic is personal. The point is; she didn't expect that her conversation would be posted in a public forum. If you post a conversation in a forum, even if it isn't entire conversation, you might ruin the relationship with her. That is why we say "Please don't post private communication without asking the person".

Thank you for understanding.
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Re: Part of a conversation

Postby lonelytraveler8 » Wed 08.12.2009 9:36 pm

Ah, I agree and now I feel bad. Alright, I'll keep the questions between us. Should I need a better explanation, I'll try to replicate the grammar with a self-made sentence next time.
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Re: Part of a conversation

Postby coco » Wed 08.12.2009 10:10 pm

わかって もらえて とっても うれしい。 :D  
ありがとう ございます。
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Re: Part of a conversation

Postby lonelytraveler8 » Wed 08.12.2009 11:44 pm

You don't have to use only kana, coco :)
I don't know always understand a kanji, but I'm starting to recognize some from looking them up repeatedly. Also, I usually have a hard time distinguishing words when everything is kana, but at least you broke it up for me.

ありがとうございます、cocoさん。でも、あなたの文がちょっと分かりました。(I mean to say I only understood it a little, but I don't know how to indicate "only". Would I use のみ?).

「わかって もらえて とっても うれしい。」 = "I'm very glad you understand"? I'm unsure of もらえて. Also, is there a difference between とても and とっても?

Sorry to change the subject of the thread, but I'd like to understand completely and the original topic wasn't well received anyway.
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Re: わかってもらえて

Postby coco » Thu 08.13.2009 1:27 am

lonelytraveler8 wrote:ありがとうございます、cocoさん。でも、あなたの文がちょっと分かりました。(I mean to say I only understood it a little, but I don't know how to indicate "only". Would I use のみ?).

だけ would be fine in this context.
ちょっと だけ わかりました。

「わかって もらえて とっても うれしい。」 = "I'm very glad you understand"? I'm unsure of もらえて.

Yes, I think you are right. :) But let me tell you some more.

Vてもらう is used when a speaker feels that an act=V is beneficial to them, or a speaker is thankful for the act V.

わかってもらう is one of the "giving/receiving" expressions.

もらえる is the potential form of もらう.
わかって もらった would be something like "I have fortunately obtained your understanding."
わかって もらえた means something like "Fortunately, I have been able to obtain your understanding."

A literal meaning of わかってもらえて うれいしい would be:   
I'm very happy that I have been able to obtain your understanding.

Also, is there a difference between とても and とっても?


とっても is an emphasized expression of とても, and the meaning is the same.   
There is an usage that small っ emphasizes the meaning. We tend to use it more often in colloquial language.

e.g.
やっぱり>やはり
ばっかり>ばかり
たった>ただ

Hope this helps. :)
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Re: わかってもらえて

Postby lonelytraveler8 » Thu 08.13.2009 1:53 am

coco wrote:Hope this helps. :)


Very much so!

coco wrote:A literal meaning of わかってもらえて うれいしい would be:   
I'm very happy that I have been able to obtain your understanding.


That's actually how I interpreted it at first, but I wasn't completely sure if もらえて was derived from もらう. I haven't learned about potential forms yet, so thanks for the information. I'll definitely explore that link you gave me!

Also, thanks for the information on using っ. I've seen it a few times recently and it has been confusing me. I have one more question.

When would be appropriate uses for だけ and のみ?
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Re: Part of a conversation

Postby two_heads_talking » Thu 08.13.2009 9:20 am

lonelytraveler8 wrote:Ah, I agree and now I feel bad. Alright, I'll keep the questions between us. Should I need a better explanation, I'll try to replicate the grammar with a self-made sentence next time.


Or better yet, ask your friend if it's ok to post up your conversations to help you learn. You can of course reassure them that you will not post up anything that might emberass them or that you will not post up anything too personal or intimate. Most people won't care as long as you don't post up things of that nature.. :mrgreen:
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Re: しか/だけ/のみ

Postby coco » Thu 08.13.2009 1:23 pm

I reviewed my comment on だけ, and found my explanation was quite rough, sorry.
Now I think (あなたの文が) ちょっと しか わかりませんでした is better than ちょっと だけ わかりました。
When you want to emphasize that the quantity or quality is inadequate or emphasize the limitation of quantity or quality, 【しか+negative form】 is more used than 【だけ+affirmative sentence】.

Example:
10 ドル しか もって いません
I only have 10 dollars. ( and I think 10 dollars is inadequate.) (?)

10 ドル だけ もって います。
I only have 10 dollars. ( nothing else.) (?) 

その任務を 果たせる のは 彼 しか いません
No one will be able to carry out the mission, except him. (?)

その任務を 果たせる のは 彼 だけ です。
Only he will be able to carry out the mission. (?)

Sometimes 【だけしか+negative form 】is also used.
10 ドル だけしか もって いません
この任務を 果たせる のは 彼 だけしか いません

As for the difference between のみ and だけ、 だけ is more widely used than のみ.
だけ can follow verbs, nouns, いadjectives, なadjectives, adverbs and particles.
のみ can follow nouns (Nのみ), but is limited in others.

ちょっとだけV or 少しだけV is very common but ちょっとのみV or 少しのみV is hardly used.
e.g.
英語が 少しだけ わかります is correct. 英語が 少しのみ わかります is not correct.
私が 話せる のは 日本語 だけ です。/私が 話せるのは 日本語 のみ です。 both okay. But だけ is more common especially in spoken language.  のみ is rather used in writing, such as an contract document, legal document.  
When would be appropriate uses for だけ and のみ?

This could be your answer?   
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Re: Part of a conversation

Postby lonelytraveler8 » Thu 08.13.2009 7:02 pm

はい、説明がいいです。 (The explanation is good.[?]) ありがとうございます。
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