More from "The Little Prince"

[sampaguita]

Hello everyone,

Here are more phrases from The Little Prince that I have difficulty with. Although I get the general idea of the sentence, I cannot understand the Japanese grammar itself. Specifically, I couldn't understand the words in bold. Could you please help me? Thank you!

1. しじゅう、これはこうだと説明しなければならないようだと、子どもは、くたびれてしまうんですがね。
２．おとなたちのようすを、すぐそばで見ました。
３．一週間の飲み水が、あるかないくらいでした。
４．　すると、どうでしょう、おどろいたことに、夜があけると、へんな、小さな声がするので、ぼくは目をさましました。

[NileCat]

First one,

I'll give you a simpler example.

だれも　いない　　　　　　nobody (is ) here
だれも　いない　ようだ　　it seems nobody (is) here
だれも　いない　ようだ と the function of と here can be ' then ' or ' since' or 'if '

Strictly speaking, the example above differs somewhat from your sentence,
but I think it helps you to analyse yours rather than some explanation of its complicated definition.　

[NileCat]

Second,

すぐ / そば / で / 見ました
I suppose now you understood.

すぐ　そば (you can take it as one word if you like) means ' close distance in space '/' very near '
すぐ　そば　で　means ' at close ' ( like... next to... or near by... )
the work of すぐ is something like "very" here. You could confirm it with your dictionary.

Thus, when he was watching the grown-ups, he was located near by them.
Ok ?

[NileCat]

Next,

ある　か　ない　くらい　でした

This sentense sounds a little bit unnatural to me, but perfectly makes sense at least.

Literally translated,
is / or / isn't / like that / it was

In English, when you say ' I can take it or leave it ', you would mean you're in between, but generally it can mean 'almost no' depends on the context. Correct ?
It's a bit similar to that. Means that the amount of water was ' small ' or in between ' enough ' and ' not enough '.

[NileCat]

Last one, ....Wow !

すると　then
どうでしょう　guess what?
おどろいたことに　to my surprise
夜があけると　when the night was over
へんな　strange (→ voice)
小さな声がするので　because I heard a little voice

[sampaguita]

NileCat-san,

Thank you very much for the detailed translations!

I have a question though. Can "kurai" in sentence 5 be replaced by "hodo"?

Thank you again!

Next,

ある　か　ない　くらい　でした

This sentense sounds a little bit unnatural to me, but perfectly makes sense at least.

Literally translated,
is / or / isn't / like that / it was

In English, when you say ' I can take it or leave it ', you would mean you're in between, but generally it can mean 'almost no' depends on the context. Correct ?
It's a bit similar to that. Means that the amount of water was ' small ' or in between ' enough ' and ' not enough '.

[NileCat]

Wow, it's actually a difficult question !
I vividly understand what you're wondering about.
In most situations, kurai and hodo is interchangeable.
Yes, you are right grammatically.
あるかないほどでした。 is grammatically correct.

But the thing is, ...like...well... " how popular the expression is ? "

３．一週間の飲み水が、あるかないくらいでした。

If I were the auther, I would say,

一週間分の飲み水が、あるかないかというくらいでした。
一週間分の飲み水が、あるかないかというほどでした。
一週間分の飲み水が、あるかないかという程度でした。

I added "分（ぶん）" and " という" in order to make the meaning clearer.
The three sentences I made up could sound more natural than the sentence in your book, at least to nomal Japanese today.
But, you know, this is " literature ".
Take, O.Henry's short novels, for instance.
There are tons of old expressions in them, aren't there ?
And If I were the professional translater, I would try to keep the old nuances in them.

Well, did my explanation make any sense to you ?

[NileCat]

Easier example:

Q. いくら持ってますか？　How much money do you have ?(with you/right now)
A. あのパンが買えるか買えないかというくらいです。 I something something.. (to buy that bread)
　　あのパンが買えるか買えないかというほどです。
　　あのパンが買えるか買えないかという程度です。

How much does he actually have ?
Who konws !
But he's telling that he doen't have much. That's for sure.

[sampaguita]

説明してくれてありがとうございました！ Your explanation was very helpful.

I understand it better now. Here's a grammar question though:

Why is it というほど/くらい

not

ということほどくらい?

Thank you!

[Yudan Taiteki]

ほど is a nominal/noun, so you can modify it directly with a verb (いう). ことほど is just two nouns stuck together so isn't correct in this context.

[NileCat]

Great explanation !
Thank you, Chris !

EDIT:
I, by myself, wouldn't have been able to answer to the question clearly like you.
I had never thought about that and only had taken that for granted.
This forum is very inspiring to me.

[sampaguita]

ほど is a nominal/noun, so you can modify it directly with a verb (いう). ことほど is just two nouns stuck together so isn't correct in this context.

But in the usage:

A wa B hodo <adjective> ja nai.


It would seem like it's an adverb, right? Thanks!

[furrykef]

You could say it's a noun used adverbially. Or maybe even like a conjunction.

To be honest, I don't think the grammar of it really makes sense on a logical level; it's just the way hodo is used. It's nice to be able to break things down neatly into nouns, adverbs, conjunctions, etc., but there's always something that throws a monkey wrench into it -- especially when dealing with a language like Japanese, which is an utterly unconventional language by western standards. After all, our understanding of parts of speech, while reasonably applicable to many languages, is still "optimized" for western languages.

- Kef

[sampaguita]

furrykef,

i agree.