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The ingenious Heisig Method

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Re: The ingenious Heisig Method

Postby KanjiHanzi » Mon 01.05.2009 9:11 am

PS. Just to show that my memory is pretty good. If that is your son I DO think his name is

 

or something very close to it? Correct? If so, not bad after more than 18 months, is it?
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Re: The ingenious Heisig Method

Postby richvh » Mon 01.05.2009 9:56 am

KanjiHanzi wrote:
richvh wrote:We really aren't interested in the dirty laundry you picked up at some other forum. Talk about Heisig all you want, but if you continue to pursue your dispute with the other forum here, there will be thread locking, and possible banning.


Come, come, Richard!

Another forum moderator with short memory?!?! **YOU** brought this dead horse back to life after 18 months of peace. Washing dirty laundry??


In what way did I invite discussion of your dispute with the kanjikoohii forum? And notice that I explicitly did not advise against discussing Heisig (as tired as we all are of the argument, it isn't off topic.) Really, this doesn't speak well of your powers of reading comprehension.

If this thread gets locked (at least by me) it will be because of the injection of forum politics, not because of the beating of the dead Heisig horse.
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Re: The ingenious Heisig Method

Postby clay » Mon 01.05.2009 10:30 am

richvh wrote:In what way did I invite discussion of your dispute with the kanjikoohii forum? And notice that I explicitly did not advise against discussing Heisig (as tired as we all are of the argument, it isn't off topic.) Really, this doesn't speak well of your powers of reading comprehension.

If this thread gets locked (at least by me) it will be because of the injection of forum politics, not because of the beating of the dead Heisig horse.


He mistakenly thought you had revived this thread. You were at the top of the previous page, but the poster before you was the reviver. He apologized for the mistake.

PS. Just to show that my memory is pretty good. If that is your son I DO think his name is

誠 


Yes! And it is one of my favorite kanji.
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Re: The ingenious Heisig Method

Postby richvh » Mon 01.05.2009 10:46 am

clay wrote:He mistakenly thought you had revived this thread. You were at the top of the previous page, but the poster before you was the reviver. He apologized for the mistake.


I know, but the message from me that he quoted wasn't complaining about reviving the dead horse, it was telling him to drop the import of forum politics from another forum.
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Re: The ingenious Heisig Method

Postby KanjiHanzi » Mon 01.05.2009 10:56 am

clay wrote:
PS. Just to show that my memory is pretty good. If that is your son I DO think his name is

誠 


Yes! And it is one of my favorite kanji.


That's great. Both the choice of name/kanji and my memory! Yes, there is way too little 誠誠誠誠誠 in the world today so "we" should be happy with your very solid contribution :D

What I most certainly don't remember is the reading, though. Seems like my Rikaichan names dictionary was lost when I so I don't have a clue about all the possible candidates (and am too lazy to look it up in a kanji dictionary).

Pat 誠 on the head from 叔叔 (shūshu = mandarin for 叔父) Kanji Hanzi, formerly スエデン人 :lol:
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Re: The ingenious Heisig Method

Postby mbridge » Thu 08.20.2009 7:10 pm

Whew... I'm glad to see that I'm not the only one who thought Heisig was a load of bull.
I always thought that maybe things were different for me though, because I'm already fluent in Korean. but it's good to see there are others who also believe that learning one character at a time out of context like that isn't as effective as reading as much as one can in the target language.
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Re: The ingenious Heisig Method

Postby Jimserac » Sun 08.23.2009 9:25 am

@mbridge

I must disagree, the Heisig method proved a lifesaver for me over 2 decades ago. But your comments are apropos regarding the lack of contextual reading knowledge that Heisig method fails to provide.

I needed to learn to read Japanese, FAST and I wasted about $200 on various books from Tuttle publishing and others. The only worthwhile one of the bunch was the Nelson dictionary which I still have.

Meanwhile, I easily learned the Katakana/Hiragana but was overwhelmed by Kanji. After several false starts which I abandoned as total failure (one of them was the famous "Reading Japanese" book used at Yale), I stumbled across Heisig's book, Vol 1 in the Brown Univ. bookstore and bought it. I spent 2 hours reading and re-reading his long introduction on how to proceed and followed his suggestions religiously. Within 4 months I had memorized the 1969 JoYo Kanji with over 80% success and had learned to write them in the proper stroke order. Later I used a Japanese reader to learn to speak them. The process went far faster than any other way I could imagine.

If you know of a better way, I'd be interested to learn of it - oriental languages are my hobby and passion;
Later when I retire, I hope to study Tibetan but am too busy for it now.

I recently graduated from a college of Oriental Medicine in which I learned a good deal of medical Chinese. One of the teachers from China praised me when I wrote some characters on the board and asked where I had learned to write them in the proper stroke order and I told her that it was Heisig. But you are quite correct to object that the Heisig method does not teach contextual reading, it is only a first step. I later posted a comment praising volume 2 and last time I looked it was still there at his web site.

I would very much like to learn to read Korean - if you have some good learning suggestions or book suggestions for that language, I would be very much interested. They have some wonderful innovations and have developed their own offshoots of Chinese medicine. Unfortunately, in my college, this was not covered, although Japanese acupuncture was.

Thanks!
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Re: The ingenious Heisig Method

Postby furrykef » Tue 09.01.2009 8:32 am

I have to say I'm still a big fan of RTK1 (I completed it June or July last year), and my studies are progressing pretty well. Pretty slowly, sure, but I doubt I can be doing much better than I am now, short of simply investing even more time and effort, anyway. It has made it pretty easy to learn how to write words in kanji. Kanji is hardly an obstacle for me at all now. Sure, I still make mistakes sometimes, but on the whole, dealing with kanji is a heck of a lot easier than when I started.

The problem I'm having now is learning the actual words, not the kanji associated with them. I just get them all mixed up. I'm wondering if doing RTK2 or my own variant of that method might be worth the trouble. I find it much easier to memorize words whose kanji have familiar readings -- "oh, that's the same 'ai' as in 合気道".

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Re: The ingenious Heisig Method

Postby spin13 » Fri 09.04.2009 11:14 am

furrykef wrote:I find it much easier to memorize words whose kanji have familiar readings -- "oh, that's the same 'ai' as in 合気道".

Which is why people recommend learning kanji and vocabulary together.
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Re: The ingenious Heisig Method

Postby AJBryant » Fri 09.04.2009 11:58 am

spin13 wrote:
furrykef wrote:I find it much easier to memorize words whose kanji have familiar readings -- "oh, that's the same 'ai' as in 合気道".

Which is why people recommend learning kanji and vocabulary together.


Bingo.
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Re: The ingenious Heisig Method

Postby nukemarine » Sat 09.05.2009 7:22 am

spin13 wrote:
furrykef wrote:I find it much easier to memorize words whose kanji have familiar readings -- "oh, that's the same 'ai' as in 合気道".

Which is why people recommend learning kanji and vocabulary together.


People recommend lots of things. It's the ones that recommend something based on the results that make my ears perk up. I didn't take up RTK just because it sounded cool, it was backed up by reading about the results people were reporting. Results not just from those starting out in Japanese, but those that knew Japanese already. Now I'm in the position to also make recommendations based not just on opinion, but on results.

Based on my results, I recommend gaining the ability to write and recognize Kanji early. Don't make it more complicated by adding in more material to learn at the same time. As your abilities improve, you can make it more complicated by adding in pronunciations and vocabulary and sentences.

Looking at the Furrykef's quote, it just adds merit to learning onyomi in a similar divide and conquer approach that was done with learning writing and recognition of kanji. Considering that if you look at Jouyou kanji's common onyomi readings, 1850 kanji can be covered with 170 onyomi. The remaining 180 onyomi cover 400 kanji. Yeah, that's 2250 kanji cause about 200 kanji have two common onyomi.

Or yes, you can learn new kanji as you learn vocabulary. At my current level, it's what I'm doing now.

Basic advice I can offer: Learn systematically what can cover a large portion of the language (top 1000 kanji, top 2000 vocabulary, top 100 onyomi, top 100 grammar points). After that, you can either continue learning systematically, or just learning by context as you come across new material.
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