Learn Japanese with JapanesePod101.com

View topic - Sentence I can't find context for.

Sentence I can't find context for.

Do you have a translation question?

Sentence I can't find context for.

Postby space_bubble » Thu 08.27.2009 11:18 pm

二人はお金を払って席に着く。

ジェイソン:日本のマクドナルドはアメリカのとちょっと違うって聞いてたけど、ほんとに違うね。
健一   :どこが。
ジェイソン:アメリカのマクドナルドで売ってるものが、日本の店にもあるとは限らないし、それに日本のマクドナルドにしかないものもあるね。
健一   :例えば、てりやきマックバーガーとか?
ジェイソン:うん。
健一   :そうだね。ほかに、えびフィレオっていうのもあるよ。
ジェイソン:外国の物でも、日本に入ると日本化しちゃうんだね。
健一   :うん、でも、そういうことは、日本だけのことじゃないと思うなあ。

I understand all the grammar and vocabulary in that passage except the last sentence. (The passage is the end of a sample textbook conversation.) In that last sentence, I can't find the context for what 健一 says, in the conversation which precedes it. My reading (which may be wrong), is "Yes, but I think that such things aren't only Japanese things." So is 健一implying there that things that enter other nations from overseas become "other-nationized"? (For example, things that enter the U.S. from overseas become Americanized, things that enter Vietnam from overseas become Vietnamized, etc.) Or did I misread his sentence, and he actually means something else?
space_bubble
 
Posts: 87
Joined: Thu 05.22.2008 11:53 am
Location: サンディエゴ
Native language: 英語

Re: Sentence I can't find context for.

Postby becki_kanou » Thu 08.27.2009 11:24 pm

Exactly! He's saying that the same process happens whatever the country. For example Chinese food in the U.S. is different from Chinese food in Japan which is different from actual Chinese food. When a food (or anything else for that matter) migrates to another culture it gets adapted, or localized, not only in Japan, but everywhere.
そうだ、嬉しいんだ、生きる喜び!
例え胸の傷が痛んでも。
User avatar
becki_kanou
 
Posts: 3402
Joined: Sat 04.19.2008 10:09 pm
Location: Hyogo, Japan
Skype chat: yes_becki
Native language: U.S. English, 米語
Gender: Female

Re: Sentence I can't find context for.

Postby keatonatron » Fri 08.28.2009 7:50 am

I think it's important to point out that the two こと's in this sentence refer to the same thing.

そういうことは、 That kind of thing


日本だけのこと A "Japan only" thing (a thing that is only in Japan)


じゃない Is not

That kind of thing is not something that is only in Japan.

(In this case, 日本だけのこと does not mean "only Japanese things" :wink: )
User avatar
keatonatron
 
Posts: 4838
Joined: Sat 02.04.2006 3:31 am
Location: Tokyo (Via Seattle)
Native language: English
Gender: Male

Re: Sentence I can't find context for.

Postby NileCat » Fri 08.28.2009 8:36 am

Excuse me, I have a question about English.

keatonatron wrote:That kind of thing is not something that is only in Japan.

(In this case, 日本だけのこと does not mean "only Japanese things" :wink: )

...which means "only Japanese thing" is quite different from "something that is only in Japan".
Is my understanding correct?
And, if so, could anyone explain a bit about the difference for me?
User avatar
NileCat
 
Posts: 1168
Joined: Sat 08.01.2009 2:11 pm
Location: Tokyo
Native language: Japanese

Re: Sentence I can't find context for.

Postby keatonatron » Fri 08.28.2009 9:48 am

NileCat wrote:...which means "only Japanese thing" is quite different from "something that is only in Japan".
Is my understanding correct?
And, if so, could anyone explain a bit about the difference for me?


Not exactly. There are two ways to divide the words:

[only Japanese] thing (日本だけのもの)
[only] Japanese thing (日本のものだけ)

If you just say "only Japanese thing," we don't know which one you are talking about.

When Space Bubble guessed about the meaning and said "Yes, but I think that such things aren't only Japanese things," that is meaning #2, but the original Japanese sentence uses meaning #1.
User avatar
keatonatron
 
Posts: 4838
Joined: Sat 02.04.2006 3:31 am
Location: Tokyo (Via Seattle)
Native language: English
Gender: Male

Re: Sentence I can't find context for.

Postby Hyperworm » Fri 08.28.2009 9:54 am

"That kind of thing is not something that is only in Japan" is (I think) a bit of a forced unnatural literal translation. It does show up both "thing"s well, but more naturally it would be "That kind of thing doesn't happen only in Japan" or "That kind of thing isn't confined to Japan."

There is another problem with
"such things aren't only Japanese things"
vs
"that kind of thing" & "a 'Japan only' thing" (no "s")

which is the difference between
「日本に入ると日本化するという現象」(単数)and
「日本に入ると日本化する物・事」(複数。「てりやきマックバーガー」や「えびフィレオ」など。)

thingが指すのは前者、thingsが指すのは後者です。
fun translation snippets | need something translated?
BTC@1KMZXgoWiDshQis5Z7feCx8jaiP4QAB2ks
User avatar
Hyperworm
 
Posts: 493
Joined: Tue 11.20.2007 2:26 pm
Native language: English
Gender: Male

Re: Sentence I can't find context for.

Postby space_bubble » Fri 08.28.2009 10:23 am

becki_kanou wrote:Exactly! He's saying that the same process happens whatever the country. For example Chinese food in the U.S. is different from Chinese food in Japan which is different from actual Chinese food. When a food (or anything else for that matter) migrates to another culture it gets adapted, or localized, not only in Japan, but everywhere.

Okay. Wow. It's an easy sentence to those of you who are experts in the language, I'm sure, but it took a bit of energy for me to puzzle it out. It's motivating to find that I did see the right context after all. :)

keatonatron wrote:I think it's important to point out that the two こと's in this sentence refer to the same thing.

Thanks. Like particles do a bit, こと is a tiny word that plays big havoc with my mind from time to time. :)
But I am starting to get a better understanding of it by and by.
space_bubble
 
Posts: 87
Joined: Thu 05.22.2008 11:53 am
Location: サンディエゴ
Native language: 英語

Re: Sentence I can't find context for.

Postby NileCat » Fri 08.28.2009 11:21 am

Thank you, Keatonatron and Hyperworm !
Your explanations were super(ちょー) helpful. :D

And Space_bubble.
When I read English, it takes ten (or a hundred) times longer than you.
When I write, I always make mistakes. :roll: English is very tough for me, to be honest.
But now I'm kind of enjoying it. 8)
User avatar
NileCat
 
Posts: 1168
Joined: Sat 08.01.2009 2:11 pm
Location: Tokyo
Native language: Japanese

Re: Sentence I can't find context for.

Postby furrykef » Fri 08.28.2009 11:40 am

Hyperworm wrote:"That kind of thing is not something that is only in Japan" is (I think) a bit of a forced unnatural literal translation.


Right; I'm sure the point was to show the logic of what's going on, which was the important thing. It's much more important to understand the logic than to translate it into natural English (although of course it's nice to be able to do that).

NileCat wrote:English is very tough for me, to be honest.


How do you think most of us feel when reading Japanese? :lol:

- Kef
Founder of Learning Languages Through Video Games.
Also see my lang-8 journal, where you can help me practice Japanese (and Spanish, and Italian!)
User avatar
furrykef
 
Posts: 1572
Joined: Thu 01.10.2008 9:20 pm
Native language: Eggo (ワッフル語の方言)
Gender: Male

Re: Sentence I can't find context for.

Postby keatonatron » Fri 08.28.2009 11:43 am

Hyperworm wrote:"That kind of thing is not something that is only in Japan" is (I think) a bit of a forced unnatural literal translation. It does show up both "thing"s well...


I'm glad you feel that way, because I was only trying to show what meaning of こと was being used. If I had meant to provide a translation of the sentence in question, I would have said so :wink:
User avatar
keatonatron
 
Posts: 4838
Joined: Sat 02.04.2006 3:31 am
Location: Tokyo (Via Seattle)
Native language: English
Gender: Male

Re: Sentence I can't find context for.

Postby Hyperworm » Fri 08.28.2009 11:48 am

keatonatron : I was aware of the explanatory intent of the translation, and I know it wasn't intended to be natural :)
I just thought I'd make it clear that it wasn't entirely natural, because it looked like NileCat was starting to analyze it. ^^;
fun translation snippets | need something translated?
BTC@1KMZXgoWiDshQis5Z7feCx8jaiP4QAB2ks
User avatar
Hyperworm
 
Posts: 493
Joined: Tue 11.20.2007 2:26 pm
Native language: English
Gender: Male

Re: Sentence I can't find context for.

Postby NileCat » Fri 08.28.2009 11:55 am

furrykef wrote:How do you think most of us feel when reading Japanese? :lol:

I know.
But I've found quite a few people who are totally multi-lingual in this site.
I want to dissect their brains. :evil:
User avatar
NileCat
 
Posts: 1168
Joined: Sat 08.01.2009 2:11 pm
Location: Tokyo
Native language: Japanese

Re: Sentence I can't find context for.

Postby NileCat » Fri 08.28.2009 11:58 am

Hyperworm wrote:because it looked like NileCat was starting to analyze it. ^^;

I have only myself to blame? :roll:
User avatar
NileCat
 
Posts: 1168
Joined: Sat 08.01.2009 2:11 pm
Location: Tokyo
Native language: Japanese

Re: Sentence I can't find context for.

Postby space_bubble » Fri 08.28.2009 12:29 pm

NileCat wrote:And Space_bubble.
When I read English, it takes ten (or a hundred) times longer than you.
When I write, I always make mistakes. :roll: English is very tough for me, to be honest.
But now I'm kind of enjoying it. 8)

Your English is very, very good. Japanese people like yourself, who gain such strength in English, have accomplished a ton. (Same goes for English speakers and speakers of other languages in here who have such great mastery of Japanese.) Having but 2 1/2 years' studying Japanese independently, I can still only dream of attaining such goals. I'm still some goodly distance from being even minimally proficient in reading Japanese, and 1 percent proficient in being able to speak it. :shock:
space_bubble
 
Posts: 87
Joined: Thu 05.22.2008 11:53 am
Location: サンディエゴ
Native language: 英語

Re: Sentence I can't find context for.

Postby NileCat » Fri 08.28.2009 1:47 pm

space_bubble, you're too modest.
It's actually amaging that you can read that Japanese conversation you posted with ONLY 2.5 years study.(I'll never tell you how many years I've been studying English!)
And the textbook you're using seems very good, too. I thought it very natural and very practical. No easily-revised-unnatural-textbook version. It's real.
User avatar
NileCat
 
Posts: 1168
Joined: Sat 08.01.2009 2:11 pm
Location: Tokyo
Native language: Japanese

Next

Return to Translation Questions or Discussion

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests