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▽....▽

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▽....▽

Postby katafei » Thu 09.24.2009 4:38 pm

I encountered these characters in this bit of news:
http://mainichi.jp/select/wadai/news/20 ... 0000c.html

Can anyone tell me what they stand for?
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Re: ▽....▽

Postby Harisenbon » Thu 09.24.2009 8:04 pm

I'm pretty sure that they're being used as quotes or some other form of "italics" in the actual license or 方針 that they're referencing. And since it's part of the title, they reference it similarly in the article.

I could completely be wrong though
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Re: ▽....▽

Postby NileCat » Thu 09.24.2009 8:31 pm

Interestingly, I don't understand the question at all....
My MS-word or PowerPoint has some symbols for 箇条書き(bullet points?).
Like ▲ ★□◇△▽. Don't you use these symbols in English?

◇ じゃがいも
◇ キャベツ
◇ レタス

There is no rule. It's a style or fashion or design thing. In the article, because of the limitation of space, they just didn't press return key.
◇じゃがいも ◇キャベツ ◇レタス

Ahh...is that katafei's question? I don't know...even after reading Harisenbons answer...
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Re: ▽....▽

Postby chikara » Thu 09.24.2009 9:46 pm

NileCat wrote:Interestingly, I don't understand the question at all....
My MS-word or PowerPoint has some symbols for 箇条書き(bullet points?).
Like ▲ ★□◇△▽. Don't you use these symbols in English?

◇ じゃがいも
◇ キャベツ
◇ レタス

There is no rule. It's a style or fashion or design thing. In the article, because of the limitation of space, they just didn't press return key.
◇じゃがいも ◇キャベツ ◇レタス

...

In English they would be used as bullet point symbols usually to indicate a "check box" (チェックボックス) or "tick box".

When I look at that article I see inverted deltas (Δ) not squares yet if I cut and past I get ▽. Maybe it is an encoding thing. :?
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Re: ▽....▽

Postby Hyperworm » Fri 09.25.2009 4:15 pm

NileCat wrote:Interestingly, I don't understand the question at all....
My MS-word or PowerPoint has some symbols for 箇条書き(bullet points?).
Like ▲ ★□◇△▽. Don't you use these symbols in English?

◇ じゃがいも
◇ キャベツ
◇ レタス

There is no rule. It's a style or fashion or design thing. In the article, because of the limitation of space, they just didn't press return key.
◇じゃがいも ◇キャベツ ◇レタス

Ahh...is that katafei's question? I don't know...even after reading Harisenbons answer...
That answers the question well. :)
In English it's uncommon to see a bulleted list inline (all in one line) unless space is extremely limited (for instance, if restricted to 2 or 3 lines of space at the bottom of some other document). For inline lists, English uses either commas, or a colon and semicolons, like: item 1; item 2; (and) item 3.
Also, there were only two bullets (confusable for a pair like「」), ▽ is rarely used as a bullet in English (• is the standard symbol), and there were no spaces on either side of ▽. Together, these made it not very obvious. :)
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Re: ▽....▽

Postby furrykef » Fri 09.25.2009 4:41 pm

Hyperworm wrote:In English it's uncommon to see a bulleted list inline (all in one line) unless space is extremely limited (for instance, if restricted to 2 or 3 lines of space at the bottom of some other document). For inline lists, English uses either commas, or a colon and semicolons, like: item 1; item 2; (and) item 3.


I often used numbered (but not bulleted) lists inline. For example: 1) like this, 2) like this, and 3) like this. :)

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Re: ▽....▽

Postby katafei » Sat 09.26.2009 5:50 am

So it's a way of listing things?
That was one of my options, but as I never fully cracked the sentence, I wasn't sure...
Nilecat, I have never seen this type of sign in Dutch or English newspapers (which is not the same as 'they don't exist'). We would probably tend to use numbers of letters as Kef mentioned, or maybe the very straightforward bullet point.
But it's funny to notice that this is so normal to you, you even have difficulties understanding what the question was :wink:
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Re: ▽....▽

Postby NileCat » Sat 09.26.2009 6:13 am

Well...I didn't realize this was such a big issue.
So, please let me add something more precise.

The most well-known uasage may be this.
http://www.asahi.com/paper/column.html

In the article, ▼ is used as "new line".
But it is not "common". Only some newspaper editors use it today.

Nevertheless, the concept is quite easy to understand for every Japanese.
Because, (this is important), this style was originally created for indicating new lines in 縦書き(vertically writing).
In that sense, it seems a bit strange to see those symbols in 横書きeven for us. Ok?

Plus, because we usually write 横書き nowadays, those symbols have got to be used in other situations. Sometimes in different ways from its original "proper" usage. ("like bullet points in a line" is an example)

As far as I know, it is the explanation.
Last edited by NileCat on Sat 09.26.2009 6:31 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: ▽....▽

Postby katafei » Sat 09.26.2009 6:23 am

Thanks! ^^
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Re: ▽....▽

Postby astaroth » Sat 09.26.2009 7:20 am

katafei wrote:I have never seen this type of sign in Dutch or English newspapers (which is not the same as 'they don't exist').

By the way, that "symbol" is a nabla ∇ which is used in differential geometry to indicate a covariant derivative (and to distinguish such a derivative from a "normal" or partial derivative ∂ ...) that is why it looks a bit weird for me to see in a text.
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Re: ▽....▽

Postby Hyperworm » Sat 09.26.2009 6:31 pm

astaroth wrote:
katafei wrote:I have never seen this type of sign in Dutch or English newspapers (which is not the same as 'they don't exist').

By the way, that "symbol" is a nabla ∇ which is used in differential geometry to indicate a covariant derivative (and to distinguish such a derivative from a "normal" or partial derivative ∂ ...) that is why it looks a bit weird for me to see in a text.
I admire the knowledge, but it's just a triangle; they're different characters. They look slightly different for me here, too.
25BD WHITE DOWN-POINTING TRIANGLE ▽

2207 NABLA ∇
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Re: ▽....▽

Postby furrykef » Sat 09.26.2009 7:08 pm

Not necessarily. Unicode has different characters for a mathematical Greek letter delta and an honest-to-God actual Greek letter delta (i.e., the one used in writing Greek). Why? I dunno, I forget.
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Re: ▽....▽

Postby astaroth » Sun 09.27.2009 6:55 am


Now that I see them back to back I notice they're not the same ... though in writing the two symbols will be completely indistinguishable.
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Re: ▽....▽

Postby Endo » Sun 09.27.2009 3:20 pm

I thought these ▽....▽ were dracula's teeth... :lol:
Or the kinds you cut out of a かぼちゃ for halloween
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