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The contraction 聞いといてあげる

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The contraction 聞いといてあげる

Postby space_bubble » Wed 10.14.2009 12:51 pm

There's a contraction I can't figure out, which is at the end of this passage from an example dialogue:

よし子:知ってる人に頼むの。大学で、ほかの留学生たちに聞いてみたら?それから、ホストファミリーにも頼んでおくといいんじゃないかな。家族の知ってる人や親類なんかで、英会話の勉強をやりたい人が必ずいるから。私も友達なんかに聞いといてあげる

I understand everything up to that last sentence. I do understand that she is saying in her last sentence that she will ask her friend(s), and then let her listener (the person she's speaking to in the conversation) know what she finds out. How would that underlined text read if it were not contracted?
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Re: The contraction 聞いといてあげる

Postby becki_kanou » Wed 10.14.2009 1:11 pm

聞いておいてあげる。

ておく / ておいて is often contracted to とく / といて.
そうだ、嬉しいんだ、生きる喜び!
例え胸の傷が痛んでも。
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Re: The contraction 聞いといてあげる

Postby NileCat » Wed 10.14.2009 1:18 pm

It's called 音便(おんびん)(euphonic change)

聞いておいてあげる kiite-oite ---> kiiteoite ---> kiitoite
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Re: The contraction 聞いといてあげる

Postby space_bubble » Thu 10.15.2009 11:11 am

becki_kanou wrote:聞いておいてあげる。

ておく / ておいて is often contracted to とく / といて.

Oh. Now I see. Turns out, I hadn't even dreamt that ておくwas hiding there. Now I know and will keep an eye out for this in the future. Thanks. 8)
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Re: The contraction 聞いといてあげる

Postby space_bubble » Thu 10.15.2009 11:20 am

NileCat wrote:It's called 音便(おんびん)(euphonic change)

聞いておいてあげる kiite-oite ---> kiiteoite ---> kiitoite


I appreciate you pointing out 音便. I hadn't heard of it before and it's still a bit advanced for me, but in two or three years in advanced Japanese I hope to encounter it in lessons.
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Re: The contraction 聞いといてあげる

Postby yukamina » Thu 10.15.2009 9:15 pm

If you know ておく then とく isn't too advanced... These sorts of contractions can be absorbed through listening exposure since they sound similar to the full version. I don't think there's much out there for learning advanced Japanese through a textbook; I think people move on to native materials when they're ready.
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Re: The contraction 聞いといてあげる

Postby space_bubble » Sat 10.17.2009 3:04 am

yukamina wrote:If you know ておく then とく isn't too advanced... These sorts of contractions can be absorbed through listening exposure since they sound similar to the full version. I don't think there's much out there for learning advanced Japanese through a textbook; I think people move on to native materials when they're ready.

I see what you're saying. It makes sense now.
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Re: The contraction 聞いといてあげる

Postby NileCat » Sat 10.17.2009 6:24 pm

Space_bubble-san, I didn't know the word "contraction". (Well, I only knew it as a pain of childbirth.) And interestingly, I found out that we didn't have an appropriate grammar term for it in Japanese. 短縮形(たんしゅくけい) is often used. But its definition is very rough. It means all the shortened forms including abbreviation. That's why I used the technical term without thinking. As yukamina-san pointed out, although the label looks unfamiliar, I believe it's not advanced issue for you. The term only means "change of pronunciation". Sorry for confusing you.

I've never thought of the difference between "ておく" and "とく" in the casual conversation. Actually, it would be difficult to tell which is which, especially in a rapid speech. Besides, we sometimes pronounce the in-between sound. "Kiit(e)oite ageru."


SIDENOTE: 専門家の方がいらっしゃったらごめんなさい。「母音の欠落」を現代語における音便に含めるかどうかは議論の分かれるところだとは承知していますが、この場合の短縮が「音の変化」に過ぎないことを書いておきたかったのです。
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Re: The contraction 聞いといてあげる

Postby space_bubble » Tue 10.20.2009 3:25 pm

NileCat wrote:Space_bubble-san, I didn't know the word "contraction". (Well, I only knew it as a pain of childbirth.) And interestingly, I found out that we didn't have an appropriate grammar term for it in Japanese. 短縮形(たんしゅくけい) is often used. But its definition is very rough. It means all the shortened forms including abbreviation. That's why I used the technical term without thinking. As yukamina-san pointed out, although the label looks unfamiliar, I believe it's not advanced issue for you. The term only means "change of pronunciation". Sorry for confusing you.
I should have realized it as not being a sort of subject that'd be covered in a presentation or lesson specifically dedicated to what I now know, thanks to what you wrote, as 短縮形. I just jumped out and wrote that before thinking twice.

Actually, the way the textbook I use approaches teaching such 短縮形 is by presenting them in example dialogues, and then leaving it up to the student's own devices to learn what they mean.
NileCat wrote:I've never thought of the difference between "ておく" and "とく" in the casual conversation. Actually, it would be difficult to tell which is which, especially in a rapid speech. Besides, we sometimes pronounce the in-between sound. "Kiit(e)oite ageru."
I see. I am able to pick up the abbreviated version in listening exercises that are on the CD that accompanies my textbook, but only if I read along as I listen to the audio, and then listening closely for it on the applicable point on the CD.

NileCat wrote:SIDENOTE: 専門家の方がいらっしゃったらごめんなさい。「母音の欠落」を現代語における音便に含めるかどうかは議論の分かれるところだとは承知していますが、この場合の短縮が「音の変化」に過ぎないことを書いておきたかったのです。
I will spend a little time working on an English reading for this -- which I look forward to, as I'll learn a lot more Japanese from doing so -- and then I'll respond to it tomorrow.
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Re: The contraction 聞いといてあげる

Postby NileCat » Tue 10.20.2009 4:18 pm

space_bubble wrote:
NileCat wrote:SIDENOTE: 専門家の方がいらっしゃったらごめんなさい。「母音の欠落」を現代語における音便に含めるかどうかは議論の分かれるところだとは承知していますが、この場合の短縮が「音の変化」に過ぎないことを書いておきたかったのです。
I will spend a little time working on an English reading for this -- which I look forward to, as I'll learn a lot more Japanese from doing so -- and then I'll respond to it tomorrow.

Ahh..Sorry!! You don't need to do that!! I was careless. I wrote the sidenote only for professional linguists (maybe Japanese), just in case ! It's only my excuse to them !
The note says: To you experts who may find my definition of the terms technically incorrect; I realize it is a controversial issue in the academic world though, I just wanted to point out the euphonic change which is the missing of a vowel in this case differs from usual structural shortenings by efficiency.

You may understand why I had to write it in Japanese... Sorry....
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Re: The contraction 聞いといてあげる

Postby space_bubble » Wed 10.21.2009 4:43 pm

NileCat wrote:You may understand why I had to write it in Japanese....Sorry....
No need to apologize. I got to learn new kanji and stuff. Anytime that happens I think it's a very good thing, because I'm making progress.
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