Cocoさん、 i'l try to write in Japanese. But, i'l also put the english in. If i make any horrible errors in my japanese that are going to cause more confusion, please everyone, help me correct them!! よろしくお願いします！！ I also can't write with the proper respect levels yet, so if i make mistakes with that, i'm really not meaning to be rude! ：）
まず、
coco wrote:According to your explanation, you and magamo-san had a conversation about the high quality of NileCat'-san's responses which were posted here. I interpreted it as meaning that you were impressed by NileCat-san's posts, even though it was Textbookish Japanese.
If so, since you say you hope that NileCatsan doesn't always give Textbookish examples, could you please tell me which parts made you feel "Textbookish"?
実はさ、大体、このフォーラムで深さの読みではない。さらに私の日本語レベルはそんなに高くないの！そういうコメントができません。だからNileCatさんの例文には教科書的な日本語が作ったかどうか絶対に分かりません。
The truth is, generally i don't read this forum in depth. And my Japanese level isn't so high! So it wouldn't be possible for me to make that kind of comment. Therefore, whether NileCat makes textbookish sentences or not, i definately don't know.
っていうかさ、「NileCatさんの日本語は教科書的と思う」の意味っていうよりも「NileCatさんの日本語はいつも教科書的ならちょっとがっかりしたことになります」って言う意味なんだ。
"NileCat's Japanese is textbookish" wasn't what i meant. It was more like, "If NileCat does always use textbookish Japanese, i'd be a little disappointed."
だけどNileCatさんのポストを褒めてたってことがあったんです。鑑識眼のさえない私でも高級の説明したことがはっきり見える。話題は日本の出身人の説明したこととか。自国語の説明することがヤバイ難しいと思います。そういういい説明できる人は珍しいのですね。必ず、NileCatさんはそういう人。必ず、相当に尊敬したでしょう！
But, we were praising NileCats posts. Even someone like me can clearly see that he gives top class explanations. We were talking about Japanese people's explanations. Explaining your own language is incredibly difficult i think. People who can really explain it well are rare. NileCat san is one of those people. Definately, he deserves respect.
coco wrote:
子どものときは、よく外であそびました。また、いつもテレビゲームのことを考えていました。
I felt this was 教科書的な日本語.
Most adult Japanese don't speak like this, however, I don't think this kind of examples does a disservice to non-native speakers. I think this is a necessary step to learn languages for most people.
coco wrote:Does this apply to your textbookish example?
えーと、日本語を勉強している人は違うレベルだってから相当に違う説明スタイルは必要なのだと思っています。
hmm, people studying japanese are of different levels so, correspondingly different styles of explanations are necessary i think.
だけど、大体、こういうフォーラムで日本人はまだ少ないと思う。自習人には教科書的な日本語より、自然な言い方のほうが難しいと思います。
But, generally, there aren't many Japanese people who visit these kinds of forums i think. To people who are teaching themselves, it's how to speak naturally that is the hardest thing i think.
例えば、「どういう事情で使っていますか？」とか「なんでこの表現がここにあるの？」とか「そういういってれば退屈・感じ悪い・面白いの？」など。日本人の自然な答えやニュアンスを説明してことはかけがえのないことです！！
For instance, "what kind of contexts would you use this in?" or "why is this expression used here?" or "if i say it like that, is it boring / rude / funny?". that kind of thing. A japanese person's natural answers and explanations of nuances is invaluable!!
その上、私は「言語は情報を伝えるのため」って絶対間違っている見解と確信している。言語は情報を伝えるばっかりではなく、人柄を伝えることとか感情を伝えることとかユーモアを伝えるのためでしょうか。
Moreover, i think that the idea that "language is for conveying information" is a totally mistaken view. It's not only for conveying information, but to express your personality, feelings, and sense of humour.
日本の大人らしくない表現で習うとどうしてましの？せっかく覚えるのにどうしても使いたくない。結局、自然な文章や不自然な文章や子供表現や大人表現や教科書文章、全部分かるが必要なのです。でも、なんでまずは教科書の？
Why is learning expressions that aren't what Japanese adults would say better? Even if you take the time to learn it, its not something you want to use. In the end, natural sentences, unnatural sentences, children's expressions, adult's expressions, and textbook sentences, all need to be understood. But, why textbook sentences first?
私も時々教科書を読むが、ぶっちゃけ退屈ですよ。慣用句や自然な文章はそれ比べて貴重と思います。どれもこれも文章を習うことはお菓子味のような感じます。
I also look at textbooks sometimes, but to tell the truth, they're boring. Idiomatic and natural sentences are so precious in comparison, i think. Each and every individual sentence i learn feels like eating a sweet.
私の文章の文法にはいろいろな間違ってがあるんです、また、ちゃんと人柄を伝えなっちゃって。でも、何とかします！文章をいちいち勉強してればゆっくり進んでもいいですね。
In my sentences theres tons of grammar errors. I also don't think i get my character across very well yet either. But, i'l do something about it! If i keep studying sentences one by one, its ok to slowly progress, isnt it?
That took me a few hours, so i'l have to finish in English, sorry!
"Obsession", "addiction", and words like that are used in english in a non literal way quite often. They're just used to express "did something a lot" in a more interesting and slightly funny way. It gives the sentence a more friendly tone than the more flat version of "i thought about video games a lot". But, you wouldn't say that if you were trying to be really polite.
Mike Cash: i totally disagree. I think it's far more often the fact that people don't get into studying real japanese, with the kind of things they really want to express that makes people burn out. It has nothing to do with wanting to "one-up" anyone. There's no reason you can't learn interesting sentences!! Why shouldn't you skip reading that textbook?? Nobody is forcing you!. i HATE being bored!! Don't you?
NileCat: haha. That Audrey Hepburn & James Bond thing is great!! I am definately going to do that in future.
Also, it makes me happy to be thought of like Audrey Hepburn ：D
でもNileCatさんの投稿でとても救われた思いがします。)
