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Practice my current text book material :)

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Practice my current text book material :)

Postby kentaku_sama » Fri 11.06.2009 2:22 pm

Ok so since I have a text book and have worked in it now I'm going to put my own original sentences for correction to see if I'm getting the concepts I'm also using Tae kim's japanese guide as well. I'm only using material I definitely am sure about and have learned how to do. So no more trying to run before I can walk. :)

I can speak japanese: 僕は日本語が話せ。
Can you speak english: 英語が話せますか?
I came to japan by plane: 日本に飛行機で行った。 
The girl who ate her bento is in the park: お弁とを食べた女の子は公園にいます。
I don't understand the question:  質問を分からない。/ 質問を分かりません。
That dosen't look very good. それはあんまりよくない。  
He could die.         死ぬそうです。
The woman who drank juice, swam a kilometer. ジュウスを飲むんだ女は一キロを泳いだ。 
I like japanese for one because it's interesting: 日本語が好き 面白いし。   
It looks like it will snow:  雪が降りそうです。
I'm heading toward the store:  店へ行きます。
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Re: Practice my current text book material :)

Postby furrykef » Fri 11.06.2009 3:02 pm

As a disclaimer, I'm still learning myself. But I'm pretty confident about the answers I'm going to give here. :)

I can speak japanese: 僕は日本語が話せ。


Close. 話せ is just the stem form; you need 話せる or 話せます.

Can you speak english: 英語が話せますか?


Perfect.

I came to japan by plane: 日本に飛行機で行った。


This is fine, except 行った means "went" rather than "came". You probably want 来た (read きた). When the speaker and listener are in different places, though, I believe you do use 行く in place of 来る when you mean "come over there", since the verb is used relative to where the speaker is. In your sentence, the speaker is probably currently in Japan, so 来た makes more sense.

The girl who ate her bento is in the park: お弁とを食べた女の子は公園にいます。

Bento has a long vowel (so it's actually bentō) and is written 弁当. Otherwise, it looks fine to me.

I don't understand the question:  質問を分からない。/ 質問を分かりません。

You need to use が, not を, with 分かる. (But be warned that you do use を with 知る, which can be confusing since both verbs can mean "to know".)

The woman who drank juice, swam a kilometer. ジュウスを飲むんだ女は一キロを泳いだ。


ジュース is much more common (remember the katakana long vowel mark), although I wouldn't go so far as to say that ジュウス is wrong.

You need to remove the を. When you have a number that takes a counter, you don't put a particle after the counter; the number acts sort of like an adverb.

It looks like it will snow:  雪が降りそうです。


Perfect.

I'm heading toward the store:  店へ行きます。


Perfect again.

The ones I didn't comment on I wasn't sure about, so I'll let somebody else handle them. ^^; Those are:
That dosen't look very good. それはあんまりよくない。  
He could die.         死ぬそうです。
I like japanese for one because it's interesting: 日本語が好き 面白いし。
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Re: Practice my current text book material :)

Postby Astral Abraxas » Fri 11.06.2009 3:36 pm

分かる is intransitive that's why you have to use が
知る is transitive that's why you have to use を

日本語が好き 面白いし。 


面白いし、日本語が好きだ。

死ぬそうです。


I hear that (he) will die.

Maybe you want something like 死ぬかもしれません = he might die.

That dosen't look very good. それはあんまりよくない。


それは良くなさそうです = It seems that isn't good.
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Re: Practice my current text book material :)

Postby furrykef » Fri 11.06.2009 4:21 pm

Astral Abraxas wrote:分かる is intransitive that's why you have to use が
知る is transitive that's why you have to use を


That's doesn't really explain it, though. You sort of get into circular logic here: Why does 分かる take が? Because it's intransitive. Why is it intransitive? Because it takes が. ;)

Either way you look at it, you pretty much have to shrug your shoulders and say "That's just the way it is."

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Re: Practice my current text book material :)

Postby NileCat » Fri 11.06.2009 4:27 pm

Kentaku_sama,

I think your grasp about "getting rid of subject words" is very good.
( I read your past posts too. )
It seems to me that you are now walking with a light step.
Keep walking! Soon you'll notice that you are running without thinking!
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Re: Practice my current text book material :)

Postby kentaku_sama » Fri 11.06.2009 4:40 pm

That dosen't look very good. それはあんまりよくない。



それは良くなさそうです = It seems that isn't good.


I'm not exactly being literal, in English "It seems that isn't good." is basically "That doesn't look good." It's just what you say I wasn't being literal. :mrgreen:

Maybe you want something like 死ぬかもしれません = he might die


I haven't studied that yet so I don't know it. :wink:

You need to remove the を. When you have a number that takes a counter, you don't put a particle after the counter; the number acts sort of like an adverb.


So "I ran twenty hectometers" is 20ヘクトはした。

I thought leaving out the ます or る In 話せます Would be acceptable in speech with natives. 
Like I imagine in a chatroom saying: 英語が話せ?  "Do you speak english?"
Last edited by kentaku_sama on Fri 11.06.2009 4:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Practice my current text book material :)

Postby Astral Abraxas » Fri 11.06.2009 4:42 pm

furrykef wrote:That's doesn't really explain it, though. You sort of get into circular logic here: Why does 分かる take が? Because it's intransitive. Why is it intransitive? Because it takes が. ;)


It's not intransitive because it takes が... Transitive verbs can take が instead of を... However, an intransitive verb can't take を. There is no circular logic going on here :P

You never go "oh that verb must be intransitive because what seems like the object is using が!". Context can tell you whether it's intransitive but not the particle itself.
Last edited by Astral Abraxas on Fri 11.06.2009 4:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Practice my current text book material :)

Postby Yudan Taiteki » Fri 11.06.2009 4:43 pm

The general rule is that verbs that are based on volition or control take を, whereas those that don't take が for their objects. Note that while 知る is not completely control-based, it often has that connotation -- it's why 知らない is often a rude response to a question, because it often means something like "I don't know and I'm not going to find out".

Transitive vs. intransitive isn't really an accurate way to describe it because there are many transitive verbs that take が (the whole set of potential forms of verbs, for instance) -- that is, assuming you're using the usual definition of "transitive" and not just using the circular definition furrykef mentions.

(Note also that を分かる is frequently used by native Japanese speakers, so the confusion is not only among learners of Japanese.)

You are contradicting yourself:
Transitive verbs can take が instead of を

知る is transitive that's why you have to use を
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Re: Practice my current text book material :)

Postby Astral Abraxas » Fri 11.06.2009 4:48 pm

I can probably invent a context where 知る uses が. I shouldn't have said "have to".
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Re: Practice my current text book material :)

Postby Yudan Taiteki » Fri 11.06.2009 4:50 pm

知る using が for the *object*? I don't think such a context exists; that's a grammatical violation irrespective of context (of course 私が知る is fine but that's subject instead.)
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Re: Practice my current text book material :)

Postby Astral Abraxas » Fri 11.06.2009 4:51 pm

Honestly, I'm not too sure. :P Disregard what I said.
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Re: Practice my current text book material :)

Postby NileCat » Fri 11.06.2009 4:53 pm

Chris, ...恐れ入りました。 I found your explanation was great. Ok, I'll study Japanese again ! :D
Last edited by NileCat on Fri 11.06.2009 6:52 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Practice my current text book material :)

Postby Yudan Taiteki » Fri 11.06.2009 4:55 pm

Of course I cannot take credit for that explanation -- like so many of my grammatical explanations, it comes from Japanese: The Spoken Language.
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Re: Practice my current text book material :)

Postby NileCat » Fri 11.06.2009 6:14 pm

kentaku_sama wrote:I thought leaving out the ます or る In 話せます Would be acceptable in speech with natives. 
Like I imagine in a chatroom saying: 英語が話せ?  "Do you speak english?"

I can answer to this question! :D

No, it is not acceptable. Even in 2ch (a notorious website), you'd be crossfired (or ignored). 8)
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Re: Practice my current text book material :)

Postby kentaku_sama » Sat 11.07.2009 1:41 am

Next ones (using nara and temiru)

フランスに行った事がありますか?
 アメリカなら行ったことがありますが、フランスに行ったことがありません。  

  ピアノが弾けますか? Do you play piano?
 ギターなら弾けますが、ピアノが弾けません。 If it's a guitar, yeah, but I can't play a piano.

僕はフランスにフランス語を習ってみます。    I tried to learn french in france.
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