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Kanji Font

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Re: Kanji Font

Postby AJBryant » Thu 11.12.2009 6:37 pm

Sairana wrote:Are you saying I gave you too much credit?


Quite possibly.
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Re: Kanji Font

Postby phreadom » Fri 11.13.2009 4:30 pm

ryusteve wrote:Why is it that some people are saying it is soooo easy to find, but not even 1 person has posted a link or site where this stuff exists?
Interesting!
I guess this isn't a forum for anyone who needs help.


This post kind of pisses me off, so I'm going to break it down to make it perfectly clear why no direct answers were given.

First and foremost this is a forum for people who actually want to learn about Japanese language and culture. Not for people who don't care at all about either, and simply want to get a trendy Japanese tattoo and want someone else to literally do ALL the work for them.

That said, there are threads like viewtopic.php?f=43&t=13448 and many other threads on the forum that either directly explain, or point to an explanation of why we don't help people with kanji tattoos.

That page references http://thejapanesepage.com/w/index.php? ... se_tattoos which gives the full explanation in detail. (Not to mention the related page; http://thejapanesepage.com/w/index.php? ... s_in_Japan which further explains what actual Japanese tattoos really are, which will come into play regarding another of ryusteve's later comments...)

This was also in the FAQ on the main site, but seems to have been recently removed, even though it's still listed in the table of contents for the FAQ, which leads me to believe that someone (Clay?) did a recent revision of the FAQ and didn't finish cleaning up? It is however still listed and working in the FAQ on the Wiki (something that is on the TODO list to take care of, which is probably how the main page FAQ got broken... but I digress..)

But probably more important is the FACT that even a FEW SECONDS on Google would have answered the question. Something rustysteve was either too stupid or too lazy to do, neither of which motivates us to do it for him.

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=kanji+fonts

Seriously. A matter of SECONDS.

Beyond that, ryusteve goes on to say:

ryusteve wrote:I actually need some cool fonts to design some tattoos.
The default ones are just too plain.
I've spent about 2 months searching through google and have been into many computer shops to ask.
I've had no luck at all.

I might just have to wait until I go to japan at the end of the year.

Thankyou very much for trying to help.


Which is, as I've just shown, patently ridiculous, as a few minutes on Google would show anyone with a remotely functioning brain a vast assortment of Japanese fonts and Kanji/Hanzi fonts etc.

He then goes on to say:

ryusteve wrote:To those people that tried to help, Thankyou.
To the others who think that their option is all that matters, please keep it to yourself.

I have many Japanese friends with tattoo's in Kanji, so I guess that it is not that bad.
If my Japanese friends are having trouble finding fonts for me on line, then I guess you others are just too awesome!


Which is not only rude, but a bald faced LIE. I would bet money that he doesn't have any actual Japanese friends with kanji tattoos, unless they are entirely American or something and have absolutely no knowledge of their ancestors' language and culture etc... because pretty much any Japanese person would be able to find you a wide variety of fonts with no trouble at all (and probably wouldn't have kanji tattoos unless they were thugs or something, as explained in http://thejapanesepage.com/w/index.php? ... s_in_Japan ), and even any AMERICAN (or wherever he's from) remotely competent computer shop would absolutely know how to find such a thing on Google, just like EVERYONE ELSE HERE.

In short, this guy is a total MORON who came in here telling lies and trying to get someone to do the work for him that he was too STUPID AND LAZY to do for himself... so in spite of people actually trying to help him with valid responses for what would actually be a valid question for this forum, namely needing Japanese fonts because you're actually interested in learning Japanese, and have shown that you've at least made an honest effort... he starts spouting off insults and lies to try to bully people into giving him something that he should have been able to get for himself in a few minutes... aside from the fact that Kanji tattoos are kind of stupid to begin with and NOT something we on this forum help people with for the reasons listed not only in the wiki, but in a variety of posts on this forum...

Also not to mention that even searching on this forum would have shown posts like viewtopic.php?f=20&t=13364 and viewtopic.php?f=6&t=11181 and viewtopic.php?f=6&t=12115 and on and on and on.

I don't feel any sympathy for someone who comes on this forum, doesn't care at all about the forum itself, or about learning Japanese... lies through their teeth about the context they're asking in... and then insults people who honestly tried to help, because they won't do all the work for him etc. (in spite of the question not only being answered multiple times on various parts of this site, along with explanations of why Kanji tattoos are stupid and why we generally don't help people with them, as well as the fact that even a matter of SECONDS on Google would answer the question etc...)

In short GOOD RIDDANCE. *grumble* :evil:

(I will say that it could be easier to find that information on this site, but seriously... even a simple search for "tattoos" or "kanji font" on the forum here, or the wiki, turn up all the information he would have needed, and searching for "kanji font" on Google turns up a vast list of sites with free kanji fonts etc... this guy is a lying lazy moron. Good riddance.)

I know I probably shouldn't be so insulting to him... but frankly I think someone who comes in and is that lazy, rude, and dishonest with us kind of has it coming in my opinion. :(
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Re: Kanji Font

Postby becki_kanou » Fri 11.13.2009 7:25 pm

phreadom wrote:snip...
I know I probably shouldn't be so insulting to him... but frankly I think someone who comes in and is that lazy, rude, and dishonest with us kind of has it coming in my opinion. :(


Don't pull any punches, phreadom. Tell us what you really think. :lol:
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Re: Kanji Font

Postby phreadom » Fri 11.13.2009 7:42 pm

becki_kanou wrote:
phreadom wrote:snip...
I know I probably shouldn't be so insulting to him... but frankly I think someone who comes in and is that lazy, rude, and dishonest with us kind of has it coming in my opinion. :(


Don't pull any punches, phreadom. Tell us what you really think. :lol:


haha... I do really worry about being too harsh... but it makes me mad when people act like that. :(

If it hadn't been for the comment "I guess this isn't a forum for anyone who needs help." to top it all off, I'd have most likely not said anything. But that was the proverbial straw that broke the camel's back.

Anyway, I'm just taking it as motivation to get back to work on the site update and the new Rules page etc. :)

I could have seen him being a little frustrated that nobody was giving him any links and kept pointing him to Google... but really, we shouldn't have needed to do the work for him. I can't think of a simpler thing to find on Google. :? And after it became apparent what was actually going on... I don't really blame people for not being helpful. Although I suppose a link to the "Why we don't do Japanese tattoos" explicitly would have been the best response, rather than the beating around the bush that people did to avoid stating clearly why they weren't being more helpful.

Live and learn.
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Re: Kanji Font

Postby Sairana » Fri 11.13.2009 7:48 pm

An article from Stars and Stripes wrote:"It is only this year we began to open our facilities to guests with tattoos," Yamaguchi said. "It is hard for us already to restrict all of them. That’s why we decided to ask them to cover them up instead refusing them."

At Yokota, the base travel office is required to inform customers of a water park’s tattoo policy, explained base spokesman Capt. Chris Watt, who said rules are also printed on park posters hung on the base.

With 10 tattoos — mostly religious and familial in nature — and three tours in Japan, Gunnery Sgt. Tony Smith says he’s well aware of the country’s tattoo "taboo." Once, he and his fellow tattooed Marines were not included in a water-bound excursion with Japanese forces during a joint exercise.

"It’s hard not to feel discriminated against, at least a little," said Smith, who has the Bible’s 23rd Psalm on his back. "We try to be sensitive to Japanese culture and don’t stick our chopsticks in the rice, but they aren’t sensitive to our culture where tattoos are accepted."

Joseph Kumzak, the Morale, Welfare and Recreation sports director at Torii Station’s gym on Okinawa, said during a recent visit to Gold’s Gym in Tokyo, he and his wife, Zoa, were asked to cover up their tattoos with tape if they planned on working out.

Zoa has two visible tribal bands on her arms, and the couple has each other’s initials tatted on their wedding fingers.

The couple asked the gym for their money back, arguing that trying to lift weights with tape around their arms was difficult.

"We said, ‘Well, then we can’t train,’ so we left," Kumzak said. "My wife is a national-level bodybuilder; you’d think they would want her in their gym."

Kumzak, who’s lived in Japan for 15 years, said he wasn’t surprised by the rule, but finds it absurd.

"We were a little perturbed. We’re Americans, not Japanese mafia," Kumzak said. "I could see 20 or 30 years ago, but in this day and age, who cares?"


Emphasis in the last line is mine.

The standard American mindset (allow me to admit here that I am also American). "If we don't think it's a bad thing, you shouldn't either." or "The rest of the world needs to grow up and get over their own cultures and accept ours." Hence, it's something of a touchy subject around here.

Full article here.
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Re: Kanji Font

Postby becki_kanou » Fri 11.13.2009 8:03 pm

As you obviously know, not all Americans are like that. Unfortunately enough are that the rest of us get a bad rap...

I also have tattoos and I was aware of this same rule when I joined my gym, so I just wore t-shirts with 3/4 sleeves when I worked out. A little hot, but that way everyone's happy, right?
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Re: Kanji Font

Postby phreadom » Fri 11.13.2009 8:09 pm

It's honestly one of the reasons I've avoided it. Not that I really wanted one... but it's crossed my mind from time to time... I have one that I drew years ago that I've never gotten.

Oddly enough, my friend who is a full fledged teacher in Japan and has been there for about 15 years, has large shoulder tattoos like those in the article, and I never knew it or heard about him having any issues as a result of them, until I saw vacation pictures of him in Thailand recently. I guess he's had them since before he ever went to Japan... so I guess he must just be discreet about them.
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Re: Kanji Font

Postby keatonatron » Sat 11.14.2009 12:07 am

I have a Japanese friend/classmate that has a lot of tattoos (because he wanted to imitate American style :P ), and I didn't even know he had them for the first year we were at school together, he was that good (adamant?) about keeping them hidden :shock:
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Re: Kanji Font

Postby 血まみれ剣術師 » Sat 11.14.2009 7:25 pm

For those who don't know: Learn about Japanese culture and about the Yakuza. That should explain why real Japanese Tattoos aren't so popular under Japan's general populous. The Yakuza have full body tattoos and not a little inscription on their shoulder. Unlike Americans, the Yakuza hide their tattoos in public. You can't go in many public baths, swimming pools, and etc... with exposed tattoos or they'll kick you out. That's just a short overview, but you should get the point. :wink:
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Re: Kanji Font

Postby Sairana » Sun 11.15.2009 12:22 pm

血まみれ剣術師 wrote:For those who don't know: Learn about Japanese culture and about the Yakuza. That should explain why real Japanese Tattoos aren't so popular under Japan's general populous.


I think the Ainu tattooing had something to do with the feeling of taboo among Japanese, but maybe that's not really related?

So far as I know, the Ainu women would be tattooed as part of many rituals while growing up. At least twice in Japanese history, the Empire made tattoos explicitly illegal so as to integrate the Ainu into Japanese culture. I could see such decrees as sending the message to the populace at large that tattoos = bad/evil/whatever.

I'd be curious if any of you folks know more about it and can confirm or deny this idea?
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Re: Kanji Font

Postby 血まみれ剣術師 » Sun 11.15.2009 4:11 pm

http://www.ainu-museum.or.jp/english/english.html wrote:"Ainu" means "human". The Ainu people regard things useful to them or beyond their control as "kamuy"(gods). In daily life, they prayed to and performed various ceremonies for the gods. These gods include : "nature" gods, such as of fire, water, wind and thunder ; "animal" gods, such as of bears, foxes, spotted owls and gram-puses ; "plant" gods, such as of aconite, mush-room and mugwort ; "object" gods, such as of boats and pots ; and gods which protect houses, gods of mountains and gods of lakes. The word "Ainu" refers to the opposite of these gods.


http://www.ainu-museum.or.jp/english/eng11.html wrote:Men were regarded as adults at the age of 15-16. They wore loincloths and had their hair dressed properly for the first time. Women were also considered adults at the age of 15-16. They wore underclothes called "mour" and had their hair dressed properly and wound waistcloths called "raunkut," "ponkut," etc. around their bodies. When women reached age 12-13, the lips, hands and arms were tattooed. When they reached age 15-16, their tattoos were completed. Thus were they qualified for marriage.


http://tattoojoy.com/tattoo_history/japan.htm wrote:The Ainu, the natives to Japan, who had no ethic relations to the Japaneses, tattooed their woman according to religion and social status and a completed tattoo counted as a status symbol for a grown up, married woman. The Ainu were displaced increasingly with the moving in of a population group which reached Japan from the Korea. The only thing that survived from the Ainu culture are their tribal tattoos. With the beginning of the Chinese culture tattoos where seen as primitive markings from the barbaric people living in the surrounding countries of china. Since Japan oriented itself very strongly on China the tribal tattoos disappeared more and more and skin markings where only used to designate criminals.


http://www.vanishingtattoo.com/tattooing_among_japans_ainu.htm wrote:Ainu
As early as 1799, during the Edo Period, the Ezo Shogunate issued a ban on tattoos: Regarding the rumored tattoos, those already done cannot be helped, but those still unborn are prohibited from being tattooed. In 1871, the Hokkaido Development Mission proclaimed, those born after this day are strictly prohibited from being tattooed because the custom was too cruel. And according to one Western observer, the Japanese attitude towards tattooing was necessarily disapproving since in their own cultural system, tattooing was associated with crime and punishment whereas the practice itself was regarded as a form of body mutilation, which, in case of voluntary inflictment, was completely averse to the prevalent notions of Confucian filial conduct.


http://www.ainu-museum.or.jp/english/english.html wrote:However, this theory is not a proven one. In the mid-1400 s, the Japanese extended their influence over southern Hokkaido, primarily Esashi and Matsumae. Later, they came to op-press the Ainu. To resist the oppression by the Japanese, the Ainu waged the Battle of Kosyamain in 1457, the Battle of Syaksyain in 1669, and the Battle of Kunasiri-Menasi in 1789. The Ainu lost each time. After losing the Battle of Kunasiri-Menasi in particular, the Ainu fell completely under the control of the Japanese.

They remained oppressed and exploited by the Japanese until the Meiji era. In the Meiji era, under the government policy of assimilation, the Ainu were prohibited from observing their daily customs. Given the status of former aborigines, the Ainu were forced to abide by Japanese daily customs. In 1899, the Hokkaido Aborigine Protection Act was passed. The act primarily aimed to provide relief for the Ainu and help them become engaged in agriculture. However, the act designated the Ainu as "former aborigines" and clarified the distinction between the Japanese and the Ainu.

.............

http://www.vanishingtattoo.com/tattoo_museum/chinese_japanese_tattoos.html wrote:By the early seventh century, the rulers of Japan had adopted much of the culture and attitudes of the Chinese, and as a result decorative tattooing fell into official disfavor.


http://www.vanishingtattoo.com/tattoo_museum/chinese_japanese_tattoos.html wrote:By the early seventeenth century, there was a generally accepted codification of tattoo marks used to identify criminals and outcasts in Japan.


http://www.vanishingtattoo.com/tattoo_museum/chinese_japanese_tattoos.html wrote: By the end of the seventeenth century, penal tattooing had been largely replaced by other forms of punishment. One is reason is that decorative tattooing became popular, and criminals covered their penal tattoos with larger decorative tattoos. This is also thought to be the historical origin of the association of tattooing and organized crime in Japan.


http://www.vanishingtattoo.com/tattoo_museum/chinese_japanese_tattoos.html wrote:Because of the association between tattooing and criminal activity, tattooing was outlawed on the grounds that it was "deleterious to public morals."
Tattooing continued to flourish among firemen, laborers and others considered to be at the lower end of the social scale. Tattoos were favored by gangs called Yakuza, outlaws, penniless peasants, laborers and misfits who migrated to Edo in the hope of improving their lives.
The Yakuza felt that because tattooing was painful, it was a proof of courage; because it was permanent, it was evidence of lifelong loyalty to the group; and because it was illegal, it made them outlaws forever.


http://www.vanishingtattoo.com/tattoo_museum/chinese_japanese_tattoos.html wrote: 19th Century... The laws against tattooing were strictly enforced because the new rulers feared that Japanese customs would seem barbaric and ridiculous to Westerners. Ironically, under the new laws Japanese tattoo artists were allowed to tattoo foreigners but not Japanese.


http://www.japanvisitor.com/index.php?cID=359&pID=349&cName=Japanese%20Culture&pName=culture-tattoo wrote:Since then, and in spite of being the high art form that its practitioners raised it to, wearing a tattoo has been considered the mark of a gangster, or yakuza, and, as such, blatantly anti-social.


http://www.trutv.com/library/crime/gangsters_outlaws/gang/yakuza/6.html wrote:Nevertheless, there are signs that the yakuza's influence is diminishing. Japanese citizens are fighting back, banishing yakuza social clubs from their neighborhoods. For example, the Ichiri Ikka gang led by oyabun Tetsuya Aono set up shop in the Ebitsuka neighborhood of the town of Hamamatsu, 130 miles southwest of Tokyo. The gangsters' headquarters was a green-painted building that the outraged locals renamed burakku biru (the black building). The residents videotaped everyone who went in and out of the building and presented the tapes to the police. The gangsters were naturally upset with this degree of disrespect, and in retaliation they stabbed the town's lawyer, slashed the throat of a town activist, and trashed a local garage. But the people of Ebitsuka persisted, and in an out-of-court settlement the yakuza agreed to leave, not wanting to create negative publicity and set a bad precedent for other anti-yakuza activists in Japan.


http://www.flickr.com/photos/true2death/58107961/ wrote:NO TATTOOS ALLOWED! (Koengi, Tokyo) by 14-2-1.
While running around Koengi shopping for records and looking for toys & graffiti we stumbled across this bath house. Apparently in this area of Koengi there is several different gangs. They have posted this sign to keep the members of said gangs out. The last thing you want is naked tattoo mobsters getting into it.


http://www.letsjapan.markmode.com/index.php/2008/08/04/summer-time-to-tatoo-hide/ wrote:The fear that people who have a tattoo are associated with yakuza (Japanese mobsters) persists. Tattooed bodies can be bad for business, so onsens, private pools, sento community baths, water parks and places where shirts come off and shorts are worn either ban tattooed people from entry, or require them to stay covered-up.


http://japanvisitor.blogspot.com/2009/03/tattoo-bans.html wrote:Tattoo Bans
入墨

Many Japanese hot spring onsen resorts and public bath houses routinely ban people with full body tattoos (irezumi 入墨) as these are associated with Japan's mob - the yakuza.

The sign below at Hirugami onsen in Nagano prefecture clearly states that those people with full body tattoos will not be allowed in.

Image


If you have a small western style tattoo or designer tattoo it is not really a problem, as people will understand you are not a feared mobster.

© Japan Visitor.com
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Re: Kanji Font

Postby ryusteve » Tue 11.17.2009 8:40 am

Being outspoken is one thing, but being a total ****wit who is probably scared of his own shadow in the real world is totally a different story.
I lived in japan, studied the culture, speak, read and write Japanese and have a Japanese son.
So before you start having a go at anyone, I think you really need to take a look at your own pathetic existance.
In closing, I guess it was wrong for a person who is not great with computers to come onto a forum, on a site which is for genuine students of Japanese and ask for help
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Re: Kanji Font

Postby hyperconjugated » Tue 11.17.2009 9:29 am

ryusteve wrote:Being outspoken is one thing, but being a total ****wit who is probably scared of his own shadow in the real world is totally a different story.
I lived in japan, studied the culture, speak, read and write Japanese and have a Japanese son.
So before you start having a go at anyone, I think you really need to take a look at your own pathetic existance.
In closing, I guess it was wrong for a person who is not great with computers to come onto a forum, on a site which is for genuine students of Japanese and ask for help

Harisenbon provided you a link to site where you can download Japanese fonts. Should we connect to your computer via remote access, download and install the fonts, log onto TJP with your userID and write 'thank you's to ourselves? Would that be adequate to your Highness?
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