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Usage of the counter 発 for martial art techniques

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Usage of the counter 発 for martial art techniques

Postby bakouki » Tue 11.17.2009 9:28 am

今日は!
I am trying to translate the description of a martial art technique consisting of a sequence of different moves and condense it in an abbreviated, easy-to-use form.
Let's say someone gives me a bear hug from behind, arms trapped (後ろ上手抱取). First, I stomp kick his foot (甲利踏み込み蹴り), then I hit him with a palm strike in the nuts (金後ろ底掌打ち), then it's an elbow strike to the plexus (水月後ろ猿臂打ち), and the grand finale is a back kick to the mid-section (中段後ろ蹴り蹴込み). It's a beginner technique :wink:
I want to condense it into something like this: "four-strike rear escape"
Would " 後ろ四発当て抜" do? (ushiro yonhatsu ate nuki)
More specifically, is the 発 counter suitable for any kind of a blow (当て) (punch (突き), kick (蹴り), strike (打ち))?
Many thanks for any light you might shed into this matter.
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Re: Usage of the counter 発 for martial art techniques

Postby spin13 » Tue 11.17.2009 1:10 pm

Since it seems that neither you nor anybody else in your dojo is a fluent or native, speaker of Japanese, may I ask what is wrong with sticking with something much more understandable, like French or English?

That said, 発 is indeed the counter for blows/strikes (as well as gunshots and orgasms), and 本(目) is the counter for kata or forms.
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Re: Usage of the counter 発 for martial art techniques

Postby bakouki » Tue 11.17.2009 2:42 pm

どうも!

spin13 wrote:Since it seems that neither you nor anybody else in your dojo is a fluent or native, speaker of Japanese, may I ask what is wrong with sticking with something much more understandable, like French or English?

The terminology currently in use in my 道場 is a mish-mash of French, English and/or Japanese, sometimes even mixed in the same name for a particular technique… (eg Takedown ude gatame avec doigts à la clavicule)
It is quite standard to use strictly Japanese terms in 柔道 as well as 空手道. These terms are well understood by many martial artists not at all fluent in Japanese beyond the scope of martial arts.
My current research into harmonizing our terminology is both a personal learning quest as well as an attempt to meet formal requirements towards my 初段.

spin13 wrote:That said, 発 is indeed the counter for blows/strikes (as well as gunshots and orgasms), and 本(目) is the counter for kata or forms.

Orgasms?! Gee whiz, what did I end up conveying, as far as the meaning goes? :roll:
If I may, is the 発 counter applicable to kicks as well. I just want to be sure!
Many thanks again!
Phil "the geek"
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Re: Usage of the counter 発 for martial art techniques

Postby chikara » Tue 11.17.2009 8:25 pm

bakouki wrote:The terminology currently in use in my 道場 is a mish-mash of French, English and/or Japanese, sometimes even mixed in the same name for a particular technique… (eg Takedown ude gatame avec doigts à la clavicule).....

I took up 空手道 because of my interest in Japanese and Japan. The first class I went along to I was thinking "what language are these people speaking? It isn't English and it isn't Japanese".

My karate club has its own pronunciation of Japanese terms and I have been reprimanded when I have inadvertently slipped into Japanese pronunciation. :oops:

bakouki wrote:.... My current research into harmonizing our terminology is both a personal learning quest as well as an attempt to meet formal requirements towards my 初段. ...

がんばって
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Re: Usage of the counter 発 for martial art techniques

Postby bakouki » Wed 11.18.2009 2:10 am

chikara wrote:My karate club has its own pronunciation of Japanese terms and I have been reprimanded when I have inadvertently slipped into Japanese pronunciation.

OOSSSSS!
ITCH
NI
SAN
TCHEE
GO
ROKOO
SETCHE
HATCHE
KOO
DJOO

:D
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Re: Usage of the counter 発 for martial art techniques

Postby chikara » Wed 11.18.2009 2:18 am

bakouki wrote:OOSSSSS!
ITCH
NI
SAN
TCHEE
GO
ROKOO
SETCHE
HATCHE
KOO
DJOO

:D

hay
harjeemay
itch, nee, sun, she, goe, rook, shitch, hatch, koo, joo
yarmay

:oops:
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Re: Usage of the counter 発 for martial art techniques

Postby spin13 » Wed 11.18.2009 9:24 am

bakouki wrote:It is quite standard to use strictly Japanese terms in 柔道 as well as 空手道. These terms are well understood by many martial artists not at all fluent in Japanese beyond the scope of martial arts.

Yes, but both 柔道 and 空手道 were founded in Japan by Japanese people. It makes perfect sense for the Japanese to organize and label their techniques using the Japanese language. It's also quite reasonable for students of those arts, regardless of their native tongue, to learn and use those same labels. It strikes me as odd that French Canadians, practicing a non-Japanese form of jujutsu, would create and use a number of Japanese terms.

If you are going to use Japanese names, I recommend you get yourself a couple of thick books that name 柔道, 空手道, and 合気道 techniques. They are, as you said, universal and certainly quite many in number. Many of them are also quite literal and descriptive, allowing you to adopt them.
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Re: Usage of the counter 発 for martial art techniques

Postby bakouki » Wed 11.18.2009 10:09 pm

Excerpt from another thread:
"We practice a form of 現代柔術.
Our 流 is a non-traditional (hybrid, with some techniques borrowed from other styles, not necessarily japanese) predominantely japanese martial art school." Meaning, most of our techniques do originate from 柔術.
I do have the Kodokan's 和英対照柔道用語小辞典, Schlatt's "The Karate Dictionary", along with many others without Kanji. I've also found loads of websites and my personal favorite has got to be Douglas Aoki's 空手道 pages.
I've managed to remember (from my 柔道 years), find and learn most of what I need, but I'm eager to fill in the gaps of which there are quite a few. 'Tis a personal thing, but I can't stand using messed up terminology! Plus it motivates me to learn as much 日本語 as I can. I feel I understand most of these terms, although at a very basic level. You know, you gotta start somewhere! I'm trying to get it to the next level…
Thanks for your suggestions and patience,
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