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My first attempt at a Japanese sentence.

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RE: My first attempt at a Japanese sentence.

Postby richvh » Sat 12.03.2005 11:39 pm

faan-san wrote:
richvh wrote:Not quite - nikui is an ending that turns a verb into an adjective.


Ah. Ok, thanks. But, then, it shouldn't be considered a conjugation (as this page would have it), should it?


There's a number of conjugations that effectively turn the verb into an adjective - all of them that end up ending in -i. The desiderative (-tai) for instance, and the plain form present negative (-nai). All of these can be followed by desu, for increased politeness.
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RE: My first attempt at a Japanese sentence.

Postby CajunCoder » Sun 12.04.2005 5:07 am

I think that it is standard to leave off です in familiar situations, isn't it?
For example, you often hear sentences such as それは本「ほん」、わたしはカジュン. Are these not "technically" grammatically correct? Is using adjectives any different?
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RE: My first attempt at a Japanese sentence.

Postby Suziepoo » Sun 12.04.2005 6:01 am

Kates wrote:
faan-san wrote:
日本語はむずかしい語習います。
にほんごはむずかしいごならいます。
nihon-go wa muzukashii go naraimasu.


I think this sounds wrong... >_> First, you're missing the を--you need the direct object marker to show what you are learning. If you would just plug in を to the sentence you wrote, you'd get:
日本語はむずかしい語を習います。
Which still doesn't seem to make sense (to me, anyway...) Since 'むずかしい語' is the direct object of 習います... I dunno, it sounds weird. But I could be wrong, of course, I'm no expert. ^^;

I would suggest something along the lines of what ishnar-san said--using 'こと'.
日本語を習うことは難しいです。
にほんごをならうことはむずかしいです。
Nihongo wo narau koto ha muzukashii desu.
"(The thing that is) Learning Japanese is difficult." ...literally

'Koto' is often used in this way to nominalize a verb phrase--as in 'learn Japanese' (日本語を習う) to make 'learning Japanese' (日本語を習うこと).

faan-san wrote:
日本語は習い難い。
にほんごはならいにくい。
nihon-go wa narai-nikui.

This one, however, sounds perfect. ^_^ It's what I would have suggested first. Just maybe add the です at the end! 'Nikui' is an adjective, so you'd need the cupola です to make it 'completely grammatical' (let's say).


Suziepoo wrote:
日本語を勉強するのは難しいと思う。

As ishnar pointed out... 勉強する doesn't mean "to learn," it means "to study." Your sentence means something more like, "I think studying Japanese is difficult." (Not that it isn't correct... because it is. ^_^ It just doesn't mean 'learing Japanese.')


Yes but I think it sounds more natural to use 'study' in Japanese.
When we say 'learning Japanese is difficult', in Japanese they'd probably say 'studying Japanese' is difficult. (Not that they'd say that about their own language anyway! But I guess they'd say it for English).
Just a language difference I suppose, you can't always translate directly, you gotta change words sometimesね;)
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RE: My first attempt at a Japanese sentence.

Postby Kates » Sun 12.04.2005 11:19 pm

CajunCoder wrote:
I think that it is standard to leave off です in familiar situations, isn't it?
For example, you often hear sentences such as それは本「ほん」、わたしはカジュン. Are these not "technically" grammatically correct? Is using adjectives any different?


Okay, so maybe saying 'technically grammatically correct' wasn't the best way to state what I was trying to. ): Gomen nasai~ It's just that a lot of the learners here are beginners, and I think it's good to put all the 'pieces' in the sentence that 'should' be there... that way, you can help avoid the confusion like "Isn't -nikui a verb?" and so on.

But yes, you could just say, "Nihongo o narau koto ha muzukashii" if you wanted--and if you were speaking to someone you were somewhat close to. (And really, that sentence still sounds a little polite... even without the 'desu'.)
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RE: My first attempt at a Japanese sentence.

Postby funitsfun » Mon 12.05.2005 12:28 pm

Could anyone plleeaseee tell me how to write this sentence in Japanese:-
"It has been a great fun time since i started learning Japanese. I have not learnt much though. But i am Trying. Japan is the best !!"
Could u please translate it to Japanese.:( I am a new member but wanna learn Japanese as quickly as i can . Thanks 4 reading .:)
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RE: My first attempt at a Japanese sentence.

Postby Infidel » Mon 12.05.2005 12:47 pm

funitsfun wrote:
Could anyone plleeaseee tell me how to write this sentence in Japanese:-
"It has been a great fun time since i started learning Japanese. I have not learnt much though. But i am Trying. Japan is the best !!"
Could u please translate it to Japanese.:( I am a new member but wanna learn Japanese as quickly as i can . Thanks 4 reading .:)


I'd gladly _help_ you, not do the work for you.
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RE: My first attempt at a Japanese sentence.

Postby coco » Mon 12.05.2005 10:55 pm

Suziepoo wrote:

Yes but I think it sounds more natural to use 'study' in Japanese.
When we say 'learning Japanese is difficult', in Japanese they'd probably say 'studying Japanese' is difficult. (Not that they'd say that about their own language anyway! But I guess they'd say it for English).
Just a language difference I suppose, you can't always translate directly, you gotta change words sometimesね;)


同感です。単語の意味も合っているし、文法も正確だけど
こういう阜サはしないなぁ...と思うことはよくあります。
たぶん日本人が使う英語も同じように思われているのでしょうね(^^;
と、このように 日本語は「思います」をたくさん使います;)

確かに「Japanese is hard to learn.」 というのは訳しにくい。
「日本語を勉強するのは難しいと思う」というのはかなり自然な日本語です。
会話だと
「英語(以下日本語に統一)は難しい」「日本語は難しいと思う」
「日本語は大変だよ」などと簡略化され、
「勉強する」「習う」「学ぶ」が省略されることがよくあります。
日本人が動詞をつけ忘れる理由もここにあります。:p

元の文章に こだわらずに阜サすれば、
「日本語を習得するのは難しい」
「日本語を (完全に) 習得する ことは、難しい」
あたりが、気持ちを正確に伝える言葉ではないかと思います。
他の外国語と比較すると---という気持ちが強いときは
「日本語は習得しにくい言語である」
「日本語は他の言語と比べると、習得するのが難しい(と思う)」
などの阜サが思い浮かびます。

ちなみにexcite翻訳では
「日本語は習得しにくいです」となり
フレッシュアイ翻訳では
「日本語を学習することは難しい。」 と出ました。
worldlingo.com のFree Online Language Translatorでは
「日本語は学びにくい。」です。(なかなかよくできてますね)

参考までに worldliongo. com による再変換は

「日本語を学習することは難しい」→ It is difficult to study Japanese.
「日本語は学びにくい」→ It is difficult to learn Japanese.
「日本語は習得しにくいです」→ It is difficult to acquire Japanese, is.
「日本語を習得するのは難しい」→ It is difficult to acquire Japanese.
「日本語は大変だよー」 → Japanese is serious, -


「勉強する」 は 「学問に励む」という意味で言葉です。
* もともとは「 困難なことをむりにがんばってやること。勉彊(漢和辞典より)」
「習う」 は繰り返し練習する、という意味がありますが、
主に人から指導を受けている場合に使われます。
誰かに教えを受けている状態です。
身体の動きを伴うもの(たとえばスポーツや茶道、華道、書道)を学んでいる場合は、「習う」がよく使われます。

「気功qigongを習っている」← 先生に気功を教わって、本人も身体を動かしている--という意味になります。
「気功を勉強している」← 気功の歴史や効用を研究している---という意味に受け取れます。
「気功を学んでいる」← この場合は、両方の意味があります。

「勉強しにくい」「習いにくい」という場合、
誰かが周りで騒いでいたり、先生がみつからない、教材が手に入らない---などのように、学ぶ内容が難しいというよりも、"学ぶ機会を得ること自体が困難である"という意味に受け取れます。

「習得する」だと「習って覚え、身につけること」という意味ですので
誤解が生じにくいと考えられます。
Last edited by coco on Tue 12.06.2005 12:55 am, edited 1 time in total.
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RE: My first attempt at a Japanese sentence.

Postby Sachi » Mon 12.12.2005 8:25 pm

...wow, coco, your posts are always so advanced!

Nn, I'm still pretty new to this, so I don't have much to contribute but questions XD Lemme try, though...

日本語はにくいです。
Japanese is hard.

日本語はにくいならるです。
Japanese is hard to learn ? (I know this is TOTALLY wrong, but I did my best! T.T)
Lt. Japanese (topic marker) hard to learn is.

Feh, that's the best I can come up with! -_-;
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