そうです vs 思う

[katafei]

そうです vs 思う
I'm in an on-line discussion (for whatever that is worth....) about the pronunciation of the two おう sounds in these words.
My antagonists claim these are the same, but I don't think that that is true....
Any native speakers and local cracks like to comment on this?
Much obliged in advance!

[chikara]

Hear for yourself what they sound like via Jim Breen's WWJDIC.

そう
思う

Sounds slightly different to my ear but that may because one is spoken by a female and the other by a male. My ear for spoken Japanese still needs a lot of work.

I can't think of a reason why the おう would be pronounced differently but maybe someone more knowledgeable knows a reason.

The sound files on WWWDIC are provided by Japanesepod101.

[Harisenbon]

Chikara, I actually think they sound rather different.

You'll notice that the う in そう is not accentuated, it is just a continuation of the previous そ as in そー
The う in 思う however, is pronounced. You don't say おもー you say おもう.

I assume this has to do with the fact that the う in the verb conjugates, so you can't rely on it always being there -- which in return makes it necessary to accentuate it.

Even though the う in おもう can get really soft, and ALMOST like おもー, I don't feel that it ever goes away totally.

[chikara]

Thanks. I said my ear is not good

[katafei]

Blimey, how did you get those deep-links to JBreen???
They never seem to work for me....
If you enter 思う in the dict and then take the second last example, I believe you get the same voice (Mickey?)


I hear a difference, but then I'm biassed ^^

[jimbreen]

Blimey, how did you get those deep-links to JBreen???
They never seem to work for me....

In case anyone wants to know how to turn those links on, go to WWWJDIC's customize page and enable the option there. (The option defaults to "off".)

FWIW, IMNSHO そうand おもう sound quite different. In the first the う is (simply) lengthening the vowel in そ, whereas in おもう it's a vowel in its own right. Call it a quirk in Japanese orthography. Some people wish that the writing reforms of the late 1940s had fixed on ー for all vowel-lengthening, and not just in 外来語 written in katakana.

Jim

[chikara]

Blimey, how did you get those deep-links to JBreen???
They never seem to work for me....

The format for those links is explained in the WWWDIC User Guide under the heading Backdoor Entry.

[katafei]

Thanks for all the answers, ppl ^^
It's so frustrating to believe that you're right and others just say: 'it's simply a matter of listening' or 'I've been to Japan, I know what 思う sounds like'....
At least now I can think what they are saying, again, FWIW

And thanks for that explanation how to create deep links....I'm gonna try that right away!

[katafei]

Hmmm, I'm totally blonde...I reset two options, but it still doesn't work for me...

The following are disabled by default. You can selectively enable them here. O P T I O N Enable Disable
Display dictionary entries in two columns
Add a space between entries
Decrease the font size in the Menu Bar
Display only Common word (P) entries (use with caution)

Which one should it be?

[chikara]

The option Jim-sensei was talking about was to get the links to the audio clips to show.

Links to audio clips of dictionary entries (NEW)

You don't need to change any options to get the backdoor entry to work. You just need to get the format of the URL correct. The URL to the CGI program is fixed. You only need to worry about the argument passed to this program, ie the part after the question mark. For example;

1MDJsou - Look up in dictionary 1 (1) using back door entry (M) lookup key is in ASCII/romaji (D) and is Japanese (sou)
http://www.csse.monash.edu.au/~jwb/cgi-bin/wwwjdic.cgi?1MDJsou

1MDJomou - - Look up in dictionary 1 (1) using back door entry (M) lookup key is in ASCII/romaji (D) and is Japanese (omou)
http://www.csse.monash.edu.au/~jwb/cgi-bin/wwwjdic.cgi?1MDJomou