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Detailing a sequence

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Detailing a sequence

Postby bakouki » Mon 01.18.2010 9:37 am

G'day all!
I'm trying to ascertain which way is preferable to designate a specific sequence of martial arts techniques.
Let's say there's a particular move that requires one to first do a front breakfall - mae ukemi 前受身, immediately followed by a back kick (from a "down on all fours" position) - ushiro geri 後ろ蹴り.
Looking at the grammar pages, I'm confused as to which particle or construction would be better. I don't want to make this a formal sentence nor do I want to make it a command, rather only an appropriate description of what is to be done. I do want to convey the sequence in its correct temporal order (front breakfall first, back kick last).
Possibilities:
A) とも tomo: mae ukemi tomo ushiro geri 前受身とも 後ろ蹴り
B) と to: mae ukemi to ushiro geri 前受身と後ろ蹴り
C) も mo: mae ukemi to ushiro geri 前受身も後ろ蹴り
D) 然して soshite: mae ukemi soshite ushiro geri 前受身然して後ろ蹴り
E) から… kara まで… made: mae ukemi kara ushiro geri made 前受身から後ろ蹴り
F) ???
Also, what if I was to throw in intermediate steps in the sequence, what then?
Thanks for any help and/or information you might provide!
(Sorry for the probably atrocious n00b constructions seen above. I'm new at this :| )
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Re: Detailing a sequence

Postby Ben Bullock » Mon 01.18.2010 9:46 pm

bakouki wrote:I don't want to make this a formal sentence nor do I want to make it a command, rather only an appropriate description of what is to be done. I do want to convey the sequence in its correct temporal order (front breakfall first, back kick last).
Possibilities:
A) とも tomo: mae ukemi tomo ushiro geri 前受身とも 後ろ蹴り

:lol:
bakouki wrote:B) と to: mae ukemi to ushiro geri 前受身と後ろ蹴り

Hmm, that sounds like both at the same time.
bakouki wrote:C) も mo: mae ukemi to ushiro geri 前受身も後ろ蹴り

That doesn't work.
bakouki wrote:D) 然して soshite: mae ukemi soshite ushiro geri 前受身然して後ろ蹴り

That's the first one which means what you intend. Better not to use kanji for そして.
bakouki wrote:E) から… kara まで… made: mae ukemi kara ushiro geri made 前受身から後ろ蹴り

:lol:
bakouki wrote:Also, what if I was to throw in intermediate steps in the sequence, what then?
Thanks for any help and/or information you might provide!
(Sorry for the probably atrocious n00b constructions seen above. I'm new at this :| )

I'm surprised you didn't come across things like のあとに in your travel through the dictionary.
前受身のあとに後ろ蹴り
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Re: Detailing a sequence

Postby bakouki » Mon 01.18.2010 10:34 pm

Ben Bullock wrote:I'm surprised you didn't come across things like のあとに in your travel through the dictionary.

As a matter of fact, I did not: not with WWWJDIC, the Jishô application, http://www.mahou.org, etc…
I'd be grateful for any suggestion towards a better one.
Would it be a terrible inconvenience to enlighten me as to the proper usage of "のあとに / noatoni" :?:
I'm sorry to say that I'm too much of a n00b to quite follow :blush:
「初心を忘れず」
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Re: Detailing a sequence

Postby phreadom » Tue 01.19.2010 12:06 am

I'm a n00b myself, so I unfortunately can't really help with the content of your opening post... but there is something I wanted to mention after reading your other thread entitled "御早う御座います"...

When looking up words in WWWJDIC, or with the Rikaichan plugin for FireFox, both of which are based on Jim Breen's JMDICT... you'll notice in front of the definition of the word an entry in parentheses such as (int, uk, abbr). The part I want to point out is the "uk" part. This means that the word is "usually kana", which means it probably shouldn't be written in kanji (such as it is in the title of that previous thread).

Some other variations on that include; ek (exclusively kana), eK (exclusively kanji), uk (usually kana only), uK (usually kanji only), and so forth.

You can find the full list here: http://www.csse.monash.edu.au/~jwb/edic ... tml#IREF05

So the above entry for おはよう says that it's an interjection (int), abbreviation (abbr, I'm not sure if this means that it's an abbreviation for "oyahou gozaimasu, which you did actually write?... my newbieness hinders me here), and most importantly is usually written in kana only (uk)... which hopefully explains Tokai Devotee's comment of "WOW!! The title really threw me! All that Kanji looks really weird" ;)

The same goes for 然して, which Ben pointed out should be written as そして. It's easy to let the IME make everything into kanji for you, but there are often words that aren't usually written with kanji and end up looking weird even to people who are fluent. Japanese has a lot of words that are almost always written with kana only, even when kanji versions do exist. :)

On a side note, I have to say that if you use FireFox as your web browser you should REALLY check out the Rikaichan plugin! :D I use it literally every day and can't imagine giving it up. http://www.polarcloud.com/rikaichan/

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Sorry I couldn't be more help with your actual opening questions on this thread, but hopefully my comments here can help your studies in general? :D
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Re: Detailing a sequence

Postby chikara » Tue 01.19.2010 1:05 am

bakouki wrote:.... Would it be a terrible inconvenience to enlighten me as to the proper usage of "のあとに / noatoni" :?: .....

It's not in EDICT and that may be because "のあとに" is not a word. It may help to think of it as "の あと に / no ato ni".

あと (後) is "after" and の and に are particles which I assume you are familiar with. If not look them up. :)

So "[noun]のあと に" is "after/following (the) [noun]".

In your case the nouns are technique names (技).

Personally I would have used そして but I'm just a n00b :whistle:
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Re: Detailing a sequence

Postby Ben Bullock » Tue 01.19.2010 1:13 am

bakouki wrote:Would it be a terrible inconvenience to enlighten me as to the proper usage of "のあとに / noatoni" :?:

I thought I had done: 前受身のあとに後ろ蹴り
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Re: Detailing a sequence

Postby bakouki » Tue 01.19.2010 7:38 am

Thanks a lot to everyone!
chikara wrote:It's not in EDICT and that may be because "のあとに" is not a word. It may help to think of it as "の あと に / no ato ni".

Indeed, this is the little extra that I needed to understand!
phreadom wrote:Sorry I couldn't be more help with your actual opening questions on this thread, but hopefully my comments here can help your studies in general? :D

Rest assured, your comments will prove immensely helpful! *bows*
Ben Bullock wrote:I thought I had done: 前受身のあとに後ろ蹴

You did, and I now understand, どうもありがとうございました!

So I gather I'll have to cutback on the Kanji addiction I seem to suffer from… :roll:
Hopefully my next posts will not be as weird-looking!
Cheers,
Phil
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