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わ...違うわで, a few more questions

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わ...違うわで, a few more questions

Postby Frobnitz » Sun 01.24.2010 6:26 am

1. An artist is talking in terse language about the relationships between her characters. Person A is a friend of Person B but is rather jealous of him and how popular he is. The artist writes the following about how A sees B:
何かとうまくゆくわ
性格も違うわで
ライバル視 etc.
I thought the inclusion of the second "wa" before the "de" was rather strange, but upon looking on Google, I found that this "...wa...chigau wa de" is an apparently common construction. Is the tone any different here from that of the typical "wa" ending particle?

2. Expanding on the above, since "umaku yuku" can refer (among other things) to a relationship or someone's life going well, which case would it be here? Is A remarking on his relationship with B, or how things always seem to go well for B?

3. A old couple living on a farm is hearing noises coming from a stable on the property. They ask a visitor to go and check on things. The visitor thinks to himself:

「脱走した囚人は田舎へ身を隠すというしな... 構わん。今晩の宿の礼だ。」

I'd think that this would mean "they say escaped convicts come to the country to hide," but the "kamawan" seems dismissive. The "to iu shi na" is hanging me up, though I know it shouldn't; it seems to be found frequently on the end of folk sayings and whatnot ("They say that..."). Is my assessment correct?



I was going through the production materials a manga artist posted with her work, and I have a few more questions about scribbled notes. I can read these; it's just that they don't make sense. I was intending to include scans in case I was indeed misreading, but my scanner is not working.

a. 一重, which I believe here means "one layer." It's near what is just a character sketch, though; I don't see why this would need to be specified.

b. つよし, but I don't know what this would mean. Again, near a simple character sketch. The only kana I could possible be misreading is the "shi." "Tsuyoi" wouldn't make sense in this context.

c. 困りまや (or possibly 困りみゃ), which apparently isn't a word. It's about a timid, tongue-tied character, which would fit some version of "komaru."
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Re: わ...違うわで, a few more questions

Postby shin1ro » Sun 01.24.2010 10:31 am

Only for the first question, ~わ~わ is an idiom to list up things with emotion.

From Goo dictionary:
わ * (終助)
(3)感動の意を表しながら並べあげる場合に用いる。
「腹はへる—、足は棒になる—で、もうさんざんな遠足だった」
「ひき出しをあけたら、ある—、ある—、札束がぎっしりだ」

I know it's pronounced as わ but I'm (and many Japanese as well) often confused which I should chose わ or は in this idiom... :blush:

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Re: わ...違うわで, a few more questions

Postby keatonatron » Sun 01.24.2010 10:45 am

Frobnitz wrote:I thought the inclusion of the second "wa" before the "de" was rather strange, but upon looking on Google, I found that this "...wa...chigau wa de" is an apparently common construction.


I assume it's kansai-ben; で is a common sentence-ender in Osaka and surrounding areas, but we don't use it here in Tokyo so I can't really explain the "feeling" of it. :?

2. Expanding on the above, since "umaku yuku" can refer (among other things) to a relationship or someone's life going well, which case would it be here? Is A remarking on his relationship with B, or how things always seem to go well for B?


As you say, it could refer to any of those. Depends on the context. I'd assume it's referring to how the relationship is going, but can't really be sure without more of the story.

3. A old couple living on a farm is hearing noises coming from a stable on the property. They ask a visitor to go and check on things. The visitor thinks to himself:

「脱走した囚人は田舎へ身を隠すというしな... 構わん。今晩の宿の礼だ。」

I'd think that this would mean "they say escaped convicts come to the country to hide," but the "kamawan" seems dismissive. The "to iu shi na" is hanging me up, though I know it shouldn't; it seems to be found frequently on the end of folk sayings and whatnot ("They say that..."). Is my assessment correct?


"They say convicts escape to the country side to hide out.... [which means this task could be dangerous]. But I don't care, [I'll risk my life as] it's thanks for letting me stay here tonight."

As you can see, the 構わない refers to being tasked with checking out the barn. If someone asks too much of you it's called a 失礼, but if it's justified or no problem you say it 構わないs :wink: The "to iu shi" means "among other things, they say that..." which gives the impression of "it could be all manner of things, the least of which is an escaped convict trying to hide out".

a. 一重, which I believe here means "one layer." It's near what is just a character sketch, though; I don't see why this would need to be specified.


Artist lingo? As if more [layers] will be added later?

b. つよし, but I don't know what this would mean. Again, near a simple character sketch. The only kana I could possible be misreading is the "shi." "Tsuyoi" wouldn't make sense in this context.


つよし is an old-timey form of 強い(tuyoi). Similar to saying よし! instead of 良い(yoi/ii).

c. 困りまや (or possibly 困りみゃ), which apparently isn't a word. It's about a timid, tongue-tied character, which would fit some version of "komaru."


Could it be こまりや (困り屋): a person who is often troubled or indecisive?

Adding 屋 to the stem form of a verb means a person who does that action a lot.
A common example:
さびしがる, to be sad
さびしがりや, a person who is sad all the time (gets sad easily)
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Re: わ...違うわで, a few more questions

Postby shin1ro » Sun 01.24.2010 11:20 am

Frobnitz wrote:何かとうまくゆくわ
性格も違うわで
ライバル視 etc.
I thought the inclusion of the second "wa" before the "de" was rather strange, but upon looking on Google, I found that this "...wa...chigau wa de" is an apparently common construction. Is the tone any different here from that of the typical "wa" ending particle?


The わ are the common ending particle but the usage here is not the typical "femail" particle.
Here で introduces the reason of the following word ライバル視, why A sees B as a rival.
And 「~わ~わ」 tells there're two reasons one is 何かとうまく行く and 性格も違う.
And well, actually, it's an idiom in standard Japanese, not only used in kansai area.

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Re: わ...違うわで, a few more questions

Postby shin1ro » Sun 01.24.2010 11:31 am

Frobnitz wrote:a. 一重, which I believe here means "one layer." It's near what is just a character sketch, though; I don't see why this would need to be specified.


一重(ひとえ) here may mean 一重まぶた (eyelid with no fold) that is a popular abbreviation.
In general, 二重(ふたえ)まぶた is often considered as a condition of women's beauty and is more liked by women, but also 一重まぶた is not bad. Well, it may mean nothing related to your contents, though.

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Re: わ...違うわで, a few more questions

Postby Mike Cash » Sun 01.24.2010 1:45 pm

Frobnitz wrote:a. 一重, which I believe here means "one layer." It's near what is just a character sketch, though; I don't see why this would need to be specified.

b. つよし, but I don't know what this would mean. Again, near a simple character sketch. The only kana I could possible be misreading is the "shi." "Tsuyoi" wouldn't make sense in this context.


Japanese is all about context, context, context....and you've given practically none.

My guess is that the first is a given (first) name, Hitoe, and the second is a given name, Tsuyoshi.
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Re: わ...違うわで, a few more questions

Postby keatonatron » Mon 01.25.2010 12:59 am

shin1ro wrote:The わ are the common ending particle but the usage here is not the typical "female" particle.
Here で introduces the reason of the following word ライバル視, why A sees B as a rival.
And 「~わ~わ」 tells there're two reasons one is 何かとうまく行く and 性格も違う.
And well, actually, it's an idiom in standard Japanese, not only used in kansai area.


I had never heard of that ~わ~わ construction before. Thanks!

Mike Cash wrote:My guess is that the first is a given (first) name, Hitoe, and the second is a given name, Tsuyoshi.


...And I had never heard those names before. I'm glad I'm not the only one on this forum.
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Re: わ...違うわで, a few more questions

Postby Frobnitz » Mon 01.25.2010 10:54 pm

Mike Cash wrote:My guess is that the first is a given (first) name, Hitoe, and the second is a given name, Tsuyoshi.


Not possibilities here, but shin1ro and keatonatron have more than ably answered all my questions with the information provided. A big thanks to both of them for all their help.
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Re: わ...違うわで, a few more questions

Postby Mike Cash » Tue 01.26.2010 9:21 am

Frobnitz wrote:
Mike Cash wrote:My guess is that the first is a given (first) name, Hitoe, and the second is a given name, Tsuyoshi.


Not possibilities here, but shin1ro and keatonatron have more than ably answered all my questions with the information provided. A big thanks to both of them for all their help.


Would you mind providing us with the associated text so that we can help you by engaging in more than blind guesswork? Who knows....I might even be able to contribute something useful enough to be included in the big thanks next time. Mother would be so proud.
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Re: わ...違うわで, a few more questions

Postby Frobnitz » Tue 01.26.2010 10:13 am

Others have given exceptional help already, as you'll see if you read the posts above. Send Mom some chocolates, have a calming aperitif, and shake off the bad day you're having.
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Re: わ...違うわで, a few more questions

Postby Mike Cash » Tue 01.26.2010 4:10 pm

Frobnitz wrote:Others have given exceptional help already, as you'll see if you read the posts above. Send Mom some chocolates, have a calming aperitif, and shake off the bad day you're having.


I see that we finally have someone on the forum who is not only an ingrate but even more of an ass than I am. Congratulations, that is quite an accomplishment.
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Re: わ...違うわで, a few more questions

Postby Frobnitz » Wed 01.27.2010 10:27 am

Mike Cash wrote:I see that we finally have someone on the forum who is not only an ingrate but even more of an ass than I am.


Oh, I'm very grateful to those who have helped, as expressed in the posts above. I'm just not grateful to you, who wants only a punching bag. Take your anger somewhere else.

Mods, please lock this thread.
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Re: わ...違うわで, a few more questions

Postby Mike Cash » Wed 01.27.2010 4:39 pm

Frobnitz wrote:
Mike Cash wrote:I see that we finally have someone on the forum who is not only an ingrate but even more of an ass than I am.


Oh, I'm very grateful to those who have helped, as expressed in the posts above. I'm just not grateful to you, who wants only a punching bag. Take your anger somewhere else.

Mods, please lock this thread.


Up to the point where you decided to specifically exclude me from your expression of gratitude, what had I done to make you think I only wanted a punching bag? I made my best effort to answer your question with the almost non-existent clues you provided. I'd still like to see the context surrounding 一重 and つよし so we can try to figure it out.

Mods, please don't lock this thread.
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Re: わ...違うわで, a few more questions

Postby coco » Wed 01.27.2010 8:09 pm

If it were
一重の元カレはつよしだよ。
both 一重 and つよし would be a name of someone.

元カレのつよしは一重だった。
in this context, 一重 would likely be eyelids.

As Mr. Cash says, context is important.
Please read this.
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Re: わ...違うわで, a few more questions

Postby Harisenbon » Wed 01.27.2010 8:43 pm

Mods, please lock this thread.


I don't really think that there's any reason to lock this thread.
Mods don't lock threads just because someone in them doesn't like the response that they got.

I'm completely with Mike on this one, and I think Coco backs him up. Without any context, there's no way to tell what the answer you wanted was, and specifically leaving him out of your gratitude (instead of merely forgetting to include him) strikes me as rather spiteful, when all Mike was doing was offering help.
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