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漫才(まんざい)を書かなくてはいけません。

Feel free to practice writing in Japanese or romaji. Help each other out with corrections or replying back in Japanese

漫才(まんざい)を書かなくてはいけません。

Postby BlackRider » Sat 04.03.2010 8:22 pm

お久しぶりですね。
日本語の授業でスキットをしなくてはいけないんです。味方は漫才をしたいといいました。youtubeでたくさん漫才のスキットを見ました。でも、漫才の書き方を分かりません。(私の日本語はもうちょっとへたなんです。)皆さん、手伝って下さっていただけませんか。 :blush:

今、「げんき2」の第21課を習っています。第21課の文法を使わなくてはいけないんです。
文法: passive form, ~てある, ~間に、adjective + する, ~てほしい

Because my Japanese is so bad, I'll put this in English. I'm probing for any hints and suggestions for writing a manzai style skit for a 2nd year Japanese class. Story ideas are also welcome... and I'll try to stick to practicing my Japanese from here on out. :D

どうぞよろしくお願いします。
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Re: 漫才(まんざい)を書かなくてはいけません。

Postby writebook » Tue 04.06.2010 11:53 am

I don't know how to write a funny story either.
However, one key element to manzai is to have one silly, goofy guy and one serious guy who's trying to correcting him, in some cases slapping him over the head in a slapstick manner.

They had that style in Western comedy too, called a double act, with a "funny man" role and "straight man" role.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Double_act
Maybe you can also use videos of these Double Acts as a hint as well.

What you need to get out of watching these samples, whether Japanese or English, is how the serious guy's overreaction and exaggerated manner of admonishing the silly guy can actually be funny. It's not just the content of the silly guy's mistakes that is funny. If you can get a feel for this, you know what effect you're trying to achieve with manzai.

As for the content, you need to set some topic for the two people to have a conversation about. Then you can make some silly comments/mistakes/misunderstanding by the goofy man. As long as they are on that topic, the individual jokes don't have to tie in to each other.

At the end, there should be some surprise or twist to wrap the whole thing up, so that it doesn't just become a string of random mistakes and silly comments.
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Re: 漫才(まんざい)を書かなくてはいけません。

Postby BlackRider » Tue 04.06.2010 10:08 pm

どうもありがとう。私たちはスキットを書きについてスキットを書いてみたいに決めました。
Thanks. We decided to try to write a skit about writing a skit. :D

今、しゃれを考えています。たとえば:神や髪や紙を使いたいです。たとえば、「紙をくれてください」「神?どこ?あっ!ゴースト!助けて!」「馬鹿!」。
Now we're trying to think of jokes. i.e. spirit, hair, and paper..... "Could you please hand me the paper?" "A spirit? Where?! Ahh! A ghost! Save me!" "*sigh* You idiot."

兄と鬼が使えるでしょう。
We could probably use older brother & ogre... they sound alike.

So while we're learning how to write jokes and puns in Japanese, join us and help us get a good grade. :D
私の間違いを直して下さっていただけませんか。

(庭には二羽鶏がいます。)
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Re: 漫才(まんざい)を書かなくてはいけません。

Postby Reft » Tue 04.06.2010 10:31 pm

That's quite the tricky assignment you have there. Manzai is very diverse and varied. As Writebook says the original and classic pattern is the straight man ツッコミ and funny man ボケ match up, but there are a lot of variations within this pattern depending on style of humor and location etc.

Here are a few examples:

Black Mayonnaise ブラックマヨネーズ are currently one of the most popular duos going. Most of the humor is centered on the straight man (Kosugi) and his angry or frustrated over reaction to the funny man's (Yoshida ) idiocy. They're both from Osaka so they use Kansai-ben in their skits, comedians are one of the more obvious exports of the Kansai region so it is quite common for it to be featured in acts.

[url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oN4fIQZ7JL8]Night ナイツ[/url] are a fairly unique duo, the funny man constantly talks, mistaking words to make strange puns whilst the straight man corrects him angrily from behind, but they have little or no interaction save for the set up of the routine.

[url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ot612SH7WEo]雨あがり決死隊[/url]. These guys don't perform mazai so much anymore having grown so popular they no longer really need to (other such acts include Downtown, Summers etc.) But they have quite a wide repetoire. Generally the guy on the left (Miyasako) is the funny man and the guy on the right (Hotohara) is the straight man who does a very "put upon" act. But they will frequently switch round mid routine and Hotohara will act innocently stupid sending Miyasako into a furious tirade.

[url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1IIpLfifbU4&translated=1]オードリー[/url] are a recent(ish) duo on the scene. The guy in pink (Kasuga) plays a self obsessed character and his partner (Wakabayashi) acts as the straight man who casually and calmly mocks Kasuga's self indulgent outburts. Kasuga frequently doesn't respond to this mocking but will frequently react angrily to something completely normal that Wakabayashi has said.

There are many many more patterns you could choose to imitate, or create your own entirely. A few other acts to check out may be:

NON-STYLE
増田岡田
チュートリアル
U字工事 (difficult to understand because they speak quickly in Tochigi-ben)
ダウンタウン (no longer performing manzai so much due to their massive success)
ドランクドラゴン
サンドウィッチマン
笑い飯 

Good luck with your assignment.
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Re: 漫才(まんざい)を書かなくてはいけません。

Postby BlackRider » Thu 04.08.2010 8:53 pm

Reftさん、ありがとう。Downtownを見たことがあります。Downtownのほうがちょっと分かりやすいです。ほかのまんざいは分かりにくすぎます。(それを言えますか。)私たちは少ししゃれをあつめました。でも、もっとしゃれがいります。そして話に集めなくてはいけません。今週の週末には寸劇を書いてしまうつもりです。時間が足りません。 :(

これはおかしいですか。
Aさん:寸劇を書き始めなくちゃいけないよ!しめきりは来週なんだ。
Bさん:もう来週?寸隙が足りなかったなあ。
Aさん:足りない?寸劇が一つも余る!
Bさん:馬鹿!時間!時間がないよ!

本当に時間が足りないで、パニックが始まります!  :shock: (We've only got 1/2 a page and our goal is 2+ pages.)
漫才は本当に書きにくすぎます。  :o  

アイディアがあったら、もっと書きやすいかもしれません。  :? でも、がんばります。 :D
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Re: 漫才(まんざい)を書かなくてはいけません。

Postby becki_kanou » Thu 04.08.2010 10:24 pm

You have the right spirit, but unfortunately I think the pun on すんげき will be lost on most Japanese people. 寸劇, although a little uncommon, is known to most people, but 寸隙 is rarely if ever used and both NSoJs I asked (college-educated adults) had to look it up in the dictionary.

I think as one earlier posted suggested it might be better to go with some kind of silly or weird situation rather than relying on word-play. One technique I've seen used by several コンビ is to tell a familiar story (Momotaro or Cinderella or what have you ) and change it in weird and funny ways.
そうだ、嬉しいんだ、生きる喜び!
例え胸の傷が痛んでも。
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Re: 漫才(まんざい)を書かなくてはいけません。

Postby BlackRider » Thu 04.08.2010 10:42 pm

hmmm... I was afraid of that. :( My classmate really wants to focus on the wordplay, but I have enough trouble with such things in my native language. Doing such in a foreign language that I can hardly converse in is turning out to be too difficult. :blush:

I like the fairytale idea. I'll try to push that idea on him. I like the Momotaro story, but it might get lost on the rest of the class who are likely not familiar with it.... maybe I could find an illustrated web version of the story and put that on the projector.

Thanks for the help, maybe tomorrow I'll have a solid direction to work in. :)
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Re: 漫才(まんざい)を書かなくてはいけません。

Postby writebook » Fri 04.09.2010 1:25 am

I think your idea to make it about misunderstandings similar sounding Japanese words is great. Even if you aren't used to making puns, you must have encountered a lot of confusingly similar words while studying. The audience can probably relate to that too.

Besides making a skit about making a skit, here are some other ideas on how you could include Japanese in your skit:

Two people are taking a Japanese test. The funny man is clueless and keeps whispering to the straight man asking for answers, but he keeps misinterpreting the straight man's answers. Or the straight man asks where they could get more paper for the essay question, and the funny man plucks a strand of hair out of the straight man's head. It's the same as writing a skit about a skit, but it might be easier because you don't need a lot of connection between the puns. It could also not be a Japanese test, but a test on another subject like History, only that they are taking the test in Japanese.


The straight man is taking the funny man over to a Japanese person's house. The straight man give the funny man advice on how to introduce himself, but he keeps botching it up. "ぼくはマイクともうします" becomes "ぼくはマイクとおもいます" (I hear it is a common mistake, especially when you learn it through the ear) or "ぼくはジョンのあにです" becomes "ぼくはジョンのおにです". They are brought to a Tatami room.
Straight man: "This is called a Tatami"
Funny man: "Tataki"
Straight man: "No, tatami"
Funny man: "Tatari"
Straight man: "No, TA-TA-MI, can you say that?"
Funny man: "To-to-ro"
Straight man: "You're getting even farther! Never mind"

Straight man: "In this kind of room, we should sit in Seiza-style."
(Straight man sits with legs folded up.
Funny man starts sitting in various strange poses, reminiscent of Greek heroes and monsters.)
Straight man: "What are you doing?"
Funny man: これは"Orion" の星座 (せいざ、constellation)。 これは"Pegasus"の星座。
Straight man: ちがうよ。正座は、足をまげてすわることだよ。
Funny man: ああ、そうか。(sits with crossed legs, indian style)

(Finally, they are sitting with folded legs. After a while, the straight man points at the funny man's legs and asks)
"いたくないですか?"

Funny man: "はい。いたくないです。"
Straight man: "本当?"
Funny man: "(in a whisper) いたくないです。この部屋にいたくないです。出ていっていいですか?"
Straight man: "ばか!"
Funny man: "Oh! I guess that's rude. いたいです。すごくいたいです。いたーいなー!"
(A moment later they are out of the room)
Funny man: "why did they take us out of the room? I said I wanted to be there"
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Re: 漫才(まんざい)を書かなくてはいけません。

Postby writebook » Fri 04.09.2010 2:00 am

Although you probably aren't allowed to take a line straight off of the forums, here's some ideas about how to make similar jokes.

writebook wrote:The straight man is taking the funny man over to a Japanese person's house. The straight man give the funny man advice on how to introduce himself, but he keeps botching it up. "ぼくはマイクともうします" becomes "ぼくはマイクとおもいます" (I hear it is a common mistake, especially when you learn it through the ear) or "ぼくはジョンのあにです" becomes "ぼくはジョンのおにです".

If you have some situation where the straight man is trying to get the funny man to say something, there will be numerous opportunities for mistakes by the funny man.

writebook wrote:They are brought to a Tatami room.
Straight man: "This is called a Tatami"
Funny man: "Tataki"
Straight man: "No, tatami"
Funny man: "Tatari"
Straight man: "No, TA-TA-MI, can you say that?"
Funny man: "To-to-ro"
Straight man: "You're getting even farther! Never mind"

You can make a whole sequence out of nothing, by rapidly making a series of mistakes and correcting them. It's good if the mistakes escalate or end with a different type of mistake that is even sillier.

writebook wrote:Straight man: "In this kind of room, we should sit in Seiza-style."
(Straight man sits with legs folded up.
Funny man starts sitting in various strange poses, reminiscent of Greek heroes and monsters.)
Straight man: "What are you doing?"
Funny man: これは"Orion" の星座 (せいざ、constellation)。 これは"Pegasus"の星座。
Straight man: ちがうよ。正座は、足をまげてすわることだよ。
Funny man: ああ、そうか。(sits with crossed legs, indian style)

If you make some situation where the straight man is trying to get the funny man to physically do something with verbal instructions, the funny man can act out his misunderstanding in a physical way.

writebook wrote:(Finally, they are sitting with folded legs. After a while, the straight man points at the funny man's legs and asks)
"いたくないですか?"

Funny man: "はい。いたくないです。"
Straight man: "本当?"
Funny man: "(in a whisper) いたくないです。この部屋にいたくないです。出ていっていいですか?"
Straight man: "ばか!"
Funny man: "Oh! I guess that's rude. いたいです。すごくいたいです。いたーいなー!"
(A moment later they are out of the room)
Funny man: "why did they take us out of the room? I said I wanted to be there"


There are lots of Japanese words that are different in their dictionary forms, but sound the same when they are conjugated. If you have come across these while learning Japanese, you can build a situation around it. Also, the way the subject or topic is omitted in a Japanese sentence can cause misunderstandings.
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Re: 漫才(まんざい)を書かなくてはいけません。

Postby BlackRider » Sun 04.11.2010 10:00 pm

Sorry for the long delay, I was away from my computer all weekend. This is very helpful!

My current idea starts with us in class on the day we're supposed to perform our skit:
Spoiler:
1) Start of the skit
B) 先生, we forgot to write our skit!
A) No we didn't! (here's a story, let's just read it and act it out)
B) (that's a stupid idea) 先生, can we do our skit next week?
A) (ばか! too late! let's just do it!)
2) Reading the story:
* We take turns reading lines out of the story. (Maybe I'll make some illustrations.)
(We could also misread some words, like mix くる and きる.)
* huge argument, I leave the room... etc.

B) How can a boy be born from a peach?
A) Shut up and keep reading!
B) Really, how is it possible?
A) I don't know... magic? Now can we please continue?
B) Magic? Did some witch get bored and suddenly proclaim: "I'm going to make a boy inside a peach!"?
A) Ummm... yes.... Now continue.
B) Was she just so bored of hexing the villagers that she thought, "meh, I'll float this peachboy down the river. That'll really freak the hell out of those two old people."
A) You've ruined the skit. I'm going home.
* you apologize & go to bring me back
B) 先生, please excuse us one moment. (to A) Ok, I'm sorry. Let's do something else.
A) Like what? I don't have anything else prepared.
B) I don't know but we have to think of something quick.
3) Story isn't working, let's do something else... ***what?***
* We argue over what to do with the rest of the skit.
A) You studied calligraphy, right? You could teach us that.
B) Pfft, like I always carry a brush and inks in my pocket! How am I supposed to teach calligraphy without any tools?
A) Stall them. I'll see what I can find in the bookstore.
B) Umm............
* A goes out the door and instantly comes back with calligraphy tools.
B) Umm............
A) Ok, teach me.
B) Hmm... well, first you need to sit over here in the Japanese style.
* A sits down indian style.
A) Like this?
B) No. Tuck your legs under you. Like in all those samurai movies you watch.
* A brings his knees together and tucks his feet under himself but then bows with his face almost to the floor.
A) This is a little uncomfortable, but like this?
B) You moron. You look like a groveling villager. Like that, but sit up straight. Like this...
A) Ok.
B) Do you have any paper. You need paper.
A) You're the one without hair. But what's that got to do with calligraphy?
B) Shut up. You know I'm talking about paper. You write on it.
A) I'm sorry. Continue.
B) Good. Now you have to prepare the ink.
A) No, I'm not going anywhere during break.
B) What? You've confused me.
A) You said something about preparing for a vacation.
B) ...
A) Right?
B) No. I said prepare the ink. INK.
A) O... how?
B) Put some water in the suzuri. Just a little.
A) I don’t see any in there.
B) That’s why I’m telling you to put some in!
A) ?
B) Here, I’ll do it. L
A) It hurts. いたい
B) Well you can’t go. いってはいけない (いきたいと考えるかもしれない)
A) Ok. L What’s next then?
B) You grind the ink. This takes patience and practice.
A) I think I’ll just use this.
B) What’s that?
A) Ready-made ink.
B) Idiot! Why didn’t you tell me? This skit could be over by now!
A) Probably. J
B) Fine, let’s just use that.
A) I want to draw.
B) Fine, we’ll start writing now.
A) I want to draw a bird.
B) I think 鳥 is too complex for your first kanji.
A) No, I can draw a bird just fine. Look! (Draws a bird.)
B) Idiot! Write it in Japanese, not Egyptian!
A) I don’t know how Egyptians draw…
B) It sure looks like an Egyptian 文字.
A) I know. It doesn’t look very real.
B) We’re writing, not making photographs! Just write 本.
* A writes 翻(翻訳).
B) I don’t even know that 漢字 and your handwriting is terrible. This skit is over.
The End

I don't find it very funny, but it's the best I can do. :(

I'll be putting my rough draft below:
1) Start of the skit
Spoiler:
Bさん:あの…先生、私たちのスキットを書くのをわすれてしまいました。
Aさん:いいえ!先生、ちがいます。(Bさんへ)この話を読もうよ。ももたろうだ。
Bさん:(Aさんへ)それはとてもばかなアイデアよ!(先生へ)先生、今書けなかったら、来週してもいいですか。
Aさん:ばか!今するよ!(先生へ)失礼しました。私たちのスキットを始めてもいいですか。


2) Reading the story:
Spoiler:
(Insert Momotaro lines here.)
Bさん:待って、待って。男の子はももからどうやって生まれた?
Aさん:うるさい!読めよ。
Bさん:あの…どうできたの?
Aさん:分からない。まほうだろう。続けて。
Bさん:まほう?たいくつなまじょは「ももの中に男の子をつくりたい!」ときゅうに言ったの?
Aさん:スキットがめちゃくちゃだ!もう帰る。
Bさん:先生、ごめんなさい、待ってくいただけませんか。(Aさんへ)すみません。何かべつをしたがってる?
Aさん:でも、何もじゅんびしてないよ!
Bさん:じゃあ、何かすぐ考えなくちゃいけない。


3) Story isn't working, let's do something else... ***what?***
Spoiler:
Aさん:しょどうを勉強したと言っていたけど、教えられる?
Bさん:ぷー・・・いつもふでとすみを持っているんだけど・・・あっ、あった!
Aさん:教えて。
Bさん:じゃあ…初めは、ここにせいざして。
(A sits Indian-style)
Aさん:こんなふうに
Bさん:ちがう。せいざはいつも見る映画の侍みたいにしたよ。
A brings his knees together and tucks his feet under himself but then bows with his face almost to the floor.
Aさん:こんなふうに?らくじゃない。
Bさん:このばか!見て。こんなふうに。
Aさん:うん。
Bさん:紙を持っている?紙がいるんだ。
Aさん:お前は髪がない人だけど、書くとき、どうして髪がいるの?
Bさん:何言ってるの?紙を知ってるだろう。書くものだよ!
Aさん:ごめん。続けて。
Bさん:よかった。じゃ、すみをじゅんびしなくちゃいけない。
Aさん:いいね!サンドイッチを作って、車にテントを入れて、行こう!
Bさん:何?わからない。
Aさん:休みについて何か言ったんだ。
Bさん:…
Aさん:ええと…何?
Bさん:ばか!!!すみをじゅんびすると言った!す、み!
Aさん:お?どうしよう?
Bさん:すずりに水を入れて。少しだけ。
Aさん:水が入れてない・・・
Bさん:どうしてすずりに水を入れると言った!
Aさん:・・・
Bさん:入れてあげる。
Aさん:うん。じゃあ、次は?
Bさん:すみをする。がまんがいるんだ。
Aさん:じゃあ・・・これを使ってもいい? (premixed sumi)
Bさん:ばか!どうしてそれを持って来てと言わなかったんだ。知っていたら、スキットはおわりにできるよ。
Aさん:ごめん。
Bさん:いい。それを使おう。
Aさん:鳥を書きたいよ。
Bさん:鳥は書きにくすぎるだろう。
Aさん:ううん。鳥が書けるよ!見て! (paints a bird)
Bさん:ばか!日本語で鳥を書いて。エジプトの文字を書かないで。
Aさん:えっ?漢字を書きたい?
Bさん:うん。本という漢字を書いて。
Aさん:オッケー。 (writes 翻訳の翻)
Bさん:ばか!おわりだよ!ぼくにばかにされてるから?


I still have to find a good online version of ももたろう. This is as far as I have but I'll be editing and adding to it. Once I find a good version of ももたろう, then I can decide on what puns and jokes to pull from the story, and how much of the story to use before we move onto something else. All help is appreciated. :D
Last edited by BlackRider on Thu 04.15.2010 4:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 漫才(まんざい)を書かなくてはいけません。

Postby BlackRider » Tue 04.13.2010 11:36 pm

Ok, I have my English version and my first Japanese draft in the above post. 読んで直していただけませんか。

There's still two lines that I haven't translated yet. I created a post in the translation help forum with regards to those two lines.

Now I just have to memorize all of that. :shock:
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Re: 漫才(まんざい)を書かなくてはいけません。

Postby writebook » Thu 04.15.2010 7:11 am

Bさん:紙がある紙がいるんだ。→紙を持っている?紙がいるんだ。
Aさん:お前は髪がない人だけど、書くとき、どうして髪がいる
Bさん:しずかに!→ 何言ってるの? or その紙じゃないくて。 ("not that kami")
    紙を分かるはず。→ 紙を知っているでしょ
    紙に書くよ。→ 紙は、書くものだよ。


I thought that to make the joke clearer, you could have B pull a wig out of his pocket and hand it to A. Also, after A's reaction, you could have B say "Oh, that kami. Yeah, I also think you really need kami. " and then pull out a cross and bible and hand it A.
Last edited by writebook on Thu 04.15.2010 7:20 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 漫才(まんざい)を書かなくてはいけません。

Postby writebook » Thu 04.15.2010 7:19 am

Bさん:ばか!それを持って来たと言わなかった。どうして?知っていたら、スキットはおわられた。

Bさん:ばか!どうしてそれを持って来たと言わなかったんだ。知っていたら、スキットはおわりにできたよ
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Re: 漫才(まんざい)を書かなくてはいけません。

Postby writebook » Thu 04.15.2010 7:25 am

Bさん:よかった。じゃ、すみをじゅんびなくちゃいけない。
Aさん:休みはいつ?
Bさん:何?わからない。

I think the joke in this part would be more clear, if A says something like:
Bさん:よかった。じゃ、すみをじゅんびしなくちゃいけない。
Aさん:いいね。じゃあ、(do this thing)-て、(do this thing)-て…
Bさん:何?わからない。

kind of like, "Hey, that's great. Ok, let's make some sandwiches, pack our bags, put the tent in our car,..." and B interrupts "What?"
writebook
 
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Native language: 日本語

Re: 漫才(まんざい)を書かなくてはいけません。

Postby BlackRider » Thu 04.15.2010 4:25 pm

Thanks again writebook! I put the final version in my post above (2 posts up). I've made a few changes based on your input and my 先生's input, and then deleted a few lines because 1) we couldn't remember them :blush: and 2) they didn't really add a lot to the skit anyway :whistle: .

Tomorrow I can get back to my story on the cow that wanted to be a dog. :D
BlackRider
 
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