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初め/始め as a command.

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初め/始め as a command.

Postby chikara » Wed 08.04.2010 2:10 am

From Wikipedia;
Hajime (はじめ?) is the Japanese word meaning "beginning" (初め, 始め). In the Japanese traditional martial arts such as karate, judo, aikido and kendo, it is a verbal command to "begin". .....

In karate tournaments the head judge/referee starts a sparring (kumite) bout by calling "hajime" and stops it by calling "yame". My understanding is that "yame" is the imperative (command) form of the intransitive verb "yamu" (止む) meaning "to stop".

Is there an intransitive verb "hajimu" meaning "to begin" or is there some way that "hajime" is a conjugation of 始まる (始まれ being the imperative form) or some other verb?

:?
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Re: 初め/始め as a command.

Postby spin13 » Wed 08.04.2010 2:57 am

I have been unable to find confirmation for this, but I believe it is simply the 命令形 of 始める and やめる being used without the helper verbs よ or ろ as is done with 五段 verbs.
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Re: 初め/始め as a command.

Postby chikara » Wed 08.04.2010 3:18 am

Thanks spin13-san.

If that is so then both verbs are transitive where I was expecting intransitive verbs to be required in this case. I suppose there is an implied object and what is actually being said is 勝負を初め and 勝負を止め. :blush:
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Re: 初め/始め as a command.

Postby NileCat » Wed 08.04.2010 2:12 pm

Hello chikara,

Let me explain about two different things. They might not necessarily accurate in grammar. But I think they are practical in the grasp-of-our- daily-language-usage-level...

1. spin13's explanation is totally fine. And your understanding seems correct to me.
However, when we hear that sort of 号令(command), we, at least I, usually hear it like...as if it were a inperative form made by a noun form....
e.g. 起立! 礼! 着席! 敬礼! 用意! 開始! 終了!
Take 起立, for instance.
In our head, it sounds like "起立しなさい!" OR "起立することを求めます!" → "起立を命じる"
I think you have similar usage in English as well. Something like "Places, ladies and gentlemen" But I'm not sure...
In that context, はじめ! is "one word command" itself like..."Fire!" or "Go!" or...


2. the kanji
Omg, I don't want to be anal but...
It has to be 始め. Not 初め.
When you want to refer to someone starts something without having a nuance of "for the first time", it always has to be 始め....
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Re: 初め/始め as a command.

Postby chikara » Wed 08.04.2010 7:54 pm

Thank you for your detailed explanation Nilecat-san.

No need to apologise for being anal about the kanji. I am can be very pedantic about correct English usage. :) I did not previously understand when to use 始め and when to use 初め so your information is much appreciated.
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Re: 初め/始め as a command.

Postby phreadom » Fri 08.13.2010 3:01 pm

chikara wrote:Thank you for your detailed explanation Nilecat-san.

No need to apologise for being anal about the kanji. I am can be very pedantic about correct English usage. :) I did not previously understand when to use 始め and when to use 初め so your information is much appreciated.


I agree. :) I love discussions like this that delve into those nuances.

I am can be very pedantic about correct English usage.
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Re: 初め/始め as a command.

Postby two_heads_talking » Fri 08.20.2010 2:44 pm

phreadom wrote:
chikara wrote:
I am can be very pedantic about correct English usage.
:doh:


looks like someone forgot the / between am and can.. LOL :doh: :wave: :sweatdrop:
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Re: 初め/始め as a command.

Postby chikara » Sun 08.22.2010 9:59 pm

two_heads_talking wrote:looks like someone forgot the / between am and can.. LOL :doh: :wave: :sweatdrop:
:blush:

Poor editing on my part. I meant (or is that "meaned" :think: ) to delete the "am". :doh:
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Re: 初め/始め as a command.

Postby two_heads_talking » Tue 08.24.2010 12:47 pm

chikara wrote:
two_heads_talking wrote:looks like someone forgot the / between am and can.. LOL :doh: :wave: :sweatdrop:
:blush:

Poor editing on my part. I meant (or is that "meaned" :think: ) to delete the "am". :doh:


Just being cheeky mate.
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