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Honorific/humble speech using compound verbs

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Honorific/humble speech using compound verbs

Postby takiras » Thu 09.02.2010 6:32 pm

I've read that for certain verbs, instead of using the pattern お+連用形+する or お+連用形+致す, it's better to use replacement verbs altogether, for example:
普通語:
来る

丁寧語:
来ます

謙譲語:
参る(参ります)

尊敬語:
いらっしゃる(いらっしゃいます)、お出でになる(なります)、お出でなさる(なさいます)

However, I am wondering what would happen in compound words using verbs like this, e.g.
やってくる
does it become:
やって参る
やっていらっしゃいる/やってお出でになる/やってお出でなさる
or
やってきする/やってき致す
やってきになる/やってきになさる

Also, when using the ~ている form, does this change to
~ておる
~ていらっしゃる/~てお出でになる/~てお出でなさる
or
~ていする/~てい致す
~ていになる/ていなさる

Thanks for any replies ^^
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Re: Honorific/humble speech using compound verbs

Postby Michael_SD » Mon 09.06.2010 4:54 am

I am not an expert in the language, by any stretch of the imagination, but since I saw that there have been no takers for your question, I will offer something.

Although I can't remember the source from whence it came, I know that an honorific form of
している is していらっしゃる, and not なさっている.

Whether one can extrapolate to apply this rule to other verbs, I don't know. Maybe one can.

It wasn't much, but hopefully it helped a bit.
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Re: Honorific/humble speech using compound verbs

Postby NileCat » Mon 09.06.2010 11:48 am

Honestly, it's extremely difficult to tell the general rules of 敬語 in a short post.
Because some misusages are very commonly used actually.
I can't explain about "proper usage" without proper textbooks. :blush:

The only things I can tell are:

takiras wrote:or
やってきする/やってき致す
やってきになる/やってきになさる

These four expressions are all incorrect.
I mean, they don't make sense.

takiras wrote:or
~ていする/~てい致す
~ていになる/ていなさる

And these four don't make sense too.
(Well, actually, only ていなさる makes sense. But it is an archaic expression and sounds odd to modern people.) :shock:
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Re: Honorific/humble speech using compound verbs

Postby takiras » Mon 09.06.2010 3:35 pm

Thanks for the responses :) seems it's a complicated subject, I'll ask my Japanese teacher since our first lesson is on Wednesday :D
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Re: Honorific/humble speech using compound verbs

Postby Michael_SD » Mon 09.06.2010 11:25 pm

takiras wrote:Thanks for the responses :) seems it's a complicated subject, I'll ask my Japanese teacher since our first lesson is on Wednesday :D

Cool.

I ought to point out that when I said in my earlier post that "there were no takers," I meant no disrespect to anyone.

I only said it because I felt that enough time had passed that I'd venture to dive in with an answer, and saying that would be part caveat and part justification for my response, even though it was a less than expert one.

It's good that Nile Cat appeared, because, of course, she's an expert.
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Re: Honorific/humble speech using compound verbs

Postby two_heads_talking » Tue 09.07.2010 9:57 am

from what I remember combining yaru with morau and other polite verbs is kinda of an odd combination. i'd go with suru in those cases. shitemorau, shitekudasaru, etc. yaru just has a bit of an informal edge .. while suru is a more formal (not sure that's the right expression) feel.

i'd say when you go with honorifics/humble speech, it's better to error on the side of caution.
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Re: Honorific/humble speech using compound verbs

Postby NileCat » Tue 09.07.2010 10:29 am

Michael_SD wrote:It's good that Nile Cat appeared, because, of course, she's an expert.

Well, I'm not an expert. I'm just a native speaker. Whenever I post here, I'm practicing English. And I can clearly understand many Japanese learner's confusion because those problems are that I come across when I study English.
And, Michael_SD-san, Nilecat is male. :)


【やって来る】

(謙譲)本日は皆様に一言申し上げたく、新潟よりやって参りました。
(丁寧)もうすぐ寒い季節がやって来ます。
(尊敬) We usually avoid the "やって" when we want to use honorific expression.
However,
国王がわざわざ町にやって来られたのには何か理由があるに違いない。
sounds totally natural (at least to me) although it might be assumed to be grammatically incorrect.
I personally call it a "substitutional honorific expression".
Interestingly, if the sentence goes like this:
社長がパーティーにやって来られた。(wrong)
It sounds weird. Everybody would feel that it is a misusage of honorific expression.
Unfortunately I can't explain the difference logically.

I'm kind of curious how the proper textbooks of Japanese as a second language explain about it. :?


EDIT: Ah, two_heads_talking-san, you're absolutely right!
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Re: Honorific/humble speech using compound verbs

Postby Michael_SD » Sat 09.11.2010 11:34 am

NileCat wrote:
Michael_SD wrote:And, Michael_SD-san, Nilecat is male. :)
Oops. I saw the Cat, and I thought 'she.'

My apology. :blush:
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