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間違い探し: Can you find the mistake?

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間違い探し: Can you find the mistake?

Postby becki_kanou » Thu 09.09.2010 12:53 am

This a sign on the jogging track near my house, and I was surprised to notice an error in the Japanese. I thought it might be fun for some of our intermediate learners to see if they can spot the mistake.

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Re: 間違い探し: Can you find the mistake?

Postby phreadom » Thu 09.09.2010 1:31 am

Well, I enjoyed trying to figure out what the sign was trying to say... but I just don't know enough yet to point out the error. :(

I had fun trying to figure out the kanji though... I ended up using IME Pad for 2 of them. I feel silly for not knowing 自転車 and 乗る though, as I know both the vocabulary, but just hadn't learned the kanji yet (aside from 車).

Thanks for the puzzle though Becki! :D I look forward to the explanation of the error.
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Re: 間違い探し: Can you find the mistake?

Postby ss » Thu 09.09.2010 3:34 am

Thank you Becki.
I would like to try .... :think:

ジョギングコースで自転車に乗るのはやめましょう。



Spoiler:
I don't think the "の" is necessary there.
ジョギングコースで自転車に乗るのはやめましょう
Let's stop cycling on the jogging course
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Re: 間違い探し: Can you find the mistake?

Postby micahcowan » Thu 09.09.2010 2:30 pm

I agree with SS; that's the guess I would make. However, I'm not really convinced it's actually wrong to include the の. I think it might just slightly change the meaning.

Spoiler:
{ジョギングコースで{自転車に乗るの}}はやめましょう

"Let's stop (the act of) riding bikes along the jogging course"

{ジョギングコースで}の{自転車に乗るの}はやめましょう

"Let's stop bike-riding that takes place on the jogging course"

("Let's stop on-the-jogging-course の bike-riding").
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Re: 間違い探し: Can you find the mistake?

Postby Ongakuka » Thu 09.09.2010 3:07 pm

I’m failing to see any mistakes so far. As SS-san and Michael-san have pointed out, the first の of the sentence stands out, making the sentence flow less smoothly – if anything I think this is on purpose to give the message a ‘warning’ feel, rather than get glossed over – and when it comes to this particle Japanese is pretty lax in grammatical ‘strictness,’ and it can be used to form an endless number of compounds.
With its inclusion, I want to turn 自転車に乗る into a noun, but in a sense the の following this makes it a noun anyway. So my conclusion waiting to be proved wrong is that either the mistake is not related to this particle, or there are no mistakes at all.
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Re: 間違い探し: Can you find the mistake?

Postby Hyperworm » Thu 09.09.2010 3:59 pm

I think you were right with "I want to turn 自転車に乗る into a noun" - for some reason I don't think the addition of の has the same effect.
Maybe they intended to do「ジョギングコースでの自転車乗りはやめましょう」, then changed their mind halfway through and went with「ジョギングコースで自転車に乗るのはやめましょう」, but forgot to change the first half back.

I see nothing else that could be considered a mistake. ^^;
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Re: 間違い探し: Can you find the mistake?

Postby furrykef » Thu 09.09.2010 8:37 pm

Considering that there are plenty of signs in the U.S. that have some mistake or other on them, it's not too surprising that the same might happen in Japan. :P

As with the other people here, though, I can understand the message but I don't see anything obviously wrong. での does look odd, but it's certainly not the first time I've seen it and I'm not entirely clear on when you can and can't use it, or what the nuance might be.

(I'm also mildly amused that あぶない! can be used more like "Warning!" or "Notice!" rather than "Danger!", considering the literal meaning of "dangerous", but I'm guessing this isn't an unusual usage.)
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Re: 間違い探し: Can you find the mistake?

Postby Snowflake » Thu 09.09.2010 11:41 pm

Like phreadom, I'm not advanced enough yet to figure out the error. I was just happy to recognize some of the words.

That being said, I had a hard time concentrating on the sign because I kept looking at your absolutely adorable little one. What a cutie!
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Re: 間違い探し: Can you find the mistake?

Postby squarezebra » Sat 09.11.2010 8:32 am

As has been said before me, the の just doesn't seem right to me. It had me thinking, does the bike belong to the jogging track or something, and why would they put bikes at a jogging track if they are telling you not to ride them? (But then the particle で would have been odd). It makes perfect sense to me as ジョッギングコースで自転車に乗るのは止めましょう
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Re: 間違い探し: Can you find the mistake?

Postby NileCat » Sat 09.11.2010 10:26 am

Sorry to interfere but I do want to say a word.

Hi squarezebra!!!
Long time no see!!
I'm very glad to see you again!!!
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Re: 間違い探し: Can you find the mistake?

Postby squarezebra » Sat 09.11.2010 10:33 am

Thank you Nilecat. I feel so welcome :D
It's nice particularly to see you actually. I think I've learnt more from your guidance than anyone else :D
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Re: 間違い探し: Can you find the mistake?

Postby Kurious » Mon 09.13.2010 5:42 pm

I'm happy that I understood all of the characters and words used, and that I could read the text smoothly and without the dictionary. On the other hand, I could use some more grammar practice...

I'm not entirely sure of the answer, but I think that the の in での is out of place. I've seen での before, I think that it can be a valid particle combination. However, in this case I think that:
1. The statement sounds good enough with just で.
"Danger! Let's stop riding bicycles in the jogging course! --Park Administration"
2. With the での as it is, I'd translate it as:
"Danger! Let's stop riding [the] bicycles of "in the jogging course"! --Park Administration"
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Re: 間違い探し: Can you find the mistake?

Postby becki_kanou » Mon 09.13.2010 7:06 pm

Wow! Thanks to everyone who replied!

The mistake I was referring to was indeed the superfluous の of ジョッギングコースでの. I think it is an actual error rather than just an awkward expression but I'd like to hear what some of our NSoJ think. Nilecatさん, cocoさん, どう思いますか?この表現は文法的に間違っていますか?それともぎこちないだけですか?
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Re: 間違い探し: Can you find the mistake?

Postby NileCat » Mon 09.13.2010 10:49 pm

becki_kanou wrote:Wow! Thanks to everyone who replied!

The mistake I was referring to was indeed the superfluous の of ジョッギングコースでの. I think it is an actual error rather than just an awkward expression but I'd like to hear what some of our NSoJ think. Nilecatさん, cocoさん, どう思いますか?この表現は文法的に間違っていますか?それともぎこちないだけですか?

間違っています。
みなさんが指摘されたように、「意味としては理解できる」のですが、文法的には「間違い」ですし、ほとんどの日本人が「間違いだな」と感じると思います。 :)
(学校で使えば先生にあきれられる。仕事で使えばボスから怒られる。友達に使えば笑われる。初対面の人に使えば「教養のない人だな」と思われる,etc...)

EDIT:
日本人全体の識字率(literacy rate)は、99.8%と言われていますが、ネイティブが常に正しい文法を使うとは限りません。この看板について私が感じたことは、ベッキーさんが「ユーモア」として紹介された感覚と同じです。「ちょっと微笑ましい、たわいない間違い」といったところでしょうか。日常会話でなら、このような言い間違いはよくあることです。
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