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がんばれなさい / がんばりなさい -nasai with imperative form.

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がんばれなさい / がんばりなさい -nasai with imperative form.

Postby phreadom » Mon 09.20.2010 11:31 pm

Well, we were having a discussion in the lounge and when ラフさん said he had to go to work, I said がんばれ and someone else "corrected" me by saying I meant がんばって, to which I responded that がんばれ was the imperative form and was fine etc.

Then this turned into a discussion of whether or not it was supposed to have -nasai or -kudasai etc after the words, and how would it be spelled then etc.

At that point my knowledge fades out, and I can find a number of uses of both... there are over 10x as many of がんばれなさい (which is I think the "correct" use of -nasai with the imperative stem), but that doesn't discount the ~350,000 uses of がんばりなさい that I still see as well. :think:

Can someone enlighten us please? :)

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Re: がんばれなさい / がんばりなさい -nasai with imperative form.

Postby chikara » Tue 09.21.2010 12:21 am

phreadom wrote:...Then this turned into a discussion of whether or not it was supposed to have -nasai or -kudasai etc after the words, and how would it be spelled then etc. ....

I am certainly no expert but my understanding is that がんばれ is the plain imperative and that がんばりなさい is the polite imperative. Using a mix of the two seems odd to me. Kudasai also usually follows the ~te form, がんばって.

phreadom wrote:... there are over 10x as many of がんばれなさい (which is I think the "correct" use of -nasai with the imperative stem), but that doesn't discount the ~350,000 uses of がんばりなさい that I still see as well. :think: ....

Where are you getting the ~10 x 350,000 uses of がんばれなさい from? I Googled "がんばれなさい" (ie quoted, as I only wanted results with the full string) and got "About 97 results (0.03 seconds)".
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Re: がんばれなさい / がんばりなさい -nasai with imperative form.

Postby phreadom » Tue 09.21.2010 1:16 am

chikara wrote:
phreadom wrote:... there are over 10x as many of がんばれなさい (which is I think the "correct" use of -nasai with the imperative stem), but that doesn't discount the ~350,000 uses of がんばりなさい that I still see as well. :think: ....

Where are you getting the ~10 x 350,000 uses of がんばれなさい from? I Googled "がんばれなさい" (ie quoted, as I only wanted results with the full string) and got "About 97 results (0.03 seconds)".


Oops! I forgot to quote my queries. :( 38,800 for "ganbarinasai" and 97 for "ganbarenasai".
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Re: がんばれなさい / がんばりなさい -nasai with imperative form.

Postby furrykef » Tue 09.21.2010 10:01 am

phreadom wrote:to which I responded that がんばれ was the imperative form and was fine etc.

Is it, though? How often does one actually use the plain imperative form?
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Re: がんばれなさい / がんばりなさい -nasai with imperative form.

Postby phreadom » Tue 09.21.2010 10:18 am

furrykef wrote:
phreadom wrote:to which I responded that がんばれ was the imperative form and was fine etc.

Is it, though? How often does one actually use the plain imperative form?


Well, for instance I was watching "Dive To The Future!" last night and it seemed like half of the people in the crowed were shouting that at the diver. (The other half were shouting がんばって)

Now I've had it said to me, I've seen it used in multiple tv shows, etc. It clearly seems to be used fairly regularly, if perhaps somewhat informally?

It seems like in my mind I think of hearing people say "ganbare!" to a friend to urge them to "do your best!", or to say "ganbatte ne" to say "you can do it" or "do your best, ok?", and then maybe the person being spoken to responding "ganbarimasu" for "I'll do my best" etc.

(A search for "がんばれ" (in quotes) on google gives back 33,400,000 hits. That seems fairly common usage to me? :think: )
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Re: がんばれなさい / がんばりなさい -nasai with imperative form.

Postby becki_kanou » Tue 09.21.2010 10:22 am

furrykef wrote:How often does one actually use the plain imperative form?


Like everything it depends on context. If you're a hard-nosed boss or coach you can use it all you want, and if you're a young male you might often use it with with your friends. I (early 30s female) use it jokingly with my husband occasionally, or to the dog when it misbehaves, but I wouldn't use it with anyone else.

Just my non-native intuition, but がんばれ seems to be a little different than other imperatives - not as harsh somehow- but rather a passionate exhortation to do one's best; and from one guy to another as long as there isn't a big difference in age/status it sounds OK.
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Re: がんばれなさい / がんばりなさい -nasai with imperative form.

Postby CajunCoder » Fri 09.24.2010 6:15 pm

I'm quite positive がんばれなさい is incorrect. Who told you this?

Use either がんばれ、がんばって、がんばってください、or がんばなさい

As becki_kanou says, 「がんばれ」 doesn't sound harsh really - to me, at least. Though, I wouldn't use it on anyone who I am not on friendly terms with, or anyone "above" me.
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Re: がんばれなさい / がんばりなさい -nasai with imperative form.

Postby Astral Abraxas » Sat 09.25.2010 9:10 pm

I hear がんばれ all the time. I'm pretty sure putting なさい after the imperative form is wrong too. I'm not a 100% sure though. なさい after verb-stem is fine though.
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Re: がんばれなさい / がんばりなさい -nasai with imperative form.

Postby phreadom » Sun 09.26.2010 6:46 am

Astral Abraxas wrote:I'm pretty sure putting なさい after the imperative form is wrong too. I'm not a 100% sure though. なさい after verb-stem is fine though.


Yeah, as Chikara pointed out and I confirmed, that was a booboo on my part. :P

http://thejapanesepage.com/forum/viewto ... 93#p166578
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Re: がんばれなさい / がんばりなさい -nasai with imperative form.

Postby asfalios » Thu 09.30.2010 5:26 pm

Nasai is an ending to the masu form:

for example the verb iku (to go): iku - iki-masu, iki is the masu form.

so, you can't have imperative and -nasai together, it is one or the other.
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Re: がんばれなさい / がんばりなさい -nasai with imperative form.

Postby chikara » Thu 09.30.2010 7:36 pm

asfalios wrote:Nasai is an ending to the masu form:

for example the verb iku (to go): iku - iki-masu, iki is the masu form. ....

Isn't ikimasu the masu form and iki is the masu stem? :think:

The polite imperative form is the masu stem plus nasai. The masu form of iku plus nasai would be ikimasunasai. :)
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Re: がんばれなさい / がんばりなさい -nasai with imperative form.

Postby furrykef » Fri 10.01.2010 10:15 am

phreadom admitted some time ago that it was a mistake and is clearly aware of the proper form now. Why are we still talking about it? :think:
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Re: がんばれなさい / がんばりなさい -nasai with imperative form.

Postby asfalios » Fri 10.01.2010 10:57 am

chikara wrote:
asfalios wrote:Nasai is an ending to the masu form:

for example the verb iku (to go): iku - iki-masu, iki is the masu form. ....

Isn't ikimasu the masu form and iki is the masu stem? :think:

The polite imperative form is the masu stem plus nasai. The masu form of iku plus nasai would be ikimasunasai. :)


of course!!!
I used the wrong term. It is "stem" and not "form"
sorry about that :doh:
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