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i have a bunch of silly questions

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i have a bunch of silly questions

Postby juda » Mon 10.11.2010 1:59 pm

hi i've been using Japanese for everyone for a while now, and there are some points that the writers didn't bother and try to explain. so here

いえ..その、もってきた ん ですが.barbara が、あたらしいのを ほしがっている もの です から.
this sentence has confused me for a while, and i thought i would get it by going further with my studies, but i still don't get it mainly due あたらしいの and もの in the same sentence.

わたし は 会社 つとめています.
わたしの つとめている 会社
how comes we use the same verb in both structure shouldn't one be employing and the other
employed

what is the difference between くださる and あげる?
what does n desu add to the sentence ?

黒田さん は コピイした しりよう どうして おきます か?
the answer to that question was
北村さん のつくえ の うえ に おいておきます 

that is wrong rite ? i mean it makes no sense

and thanks in advance
 
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Re: i have a bunch of silly questions

Postby AJBryant » Mon 10.11.2010 7:06 pm

juda wrote:hi i've been using Japanese for everyone for a while now, and there are some points that the writers didn't bother and try to explain. so here

いえ..その、もってきた ん ですが.barbara が、あたらしいのを ほしがっている もの です から.
this sentence has confused me for a while, and i thought i would get it by going further with my studies, but i still don't get it mainly due あたらしいの and もの in the same sentence.


What is the context for this sentence?

わたし は 会社 つとめています.
わたしの つとめている 会社
how comes we use the same verb in both structure shouldn't one be employing and the other
employed


First, the verb means "work" not "employ."

The first sentence is "I work at a company" (and should be 会社  つとめています). The second is not a full sentence but just a phrase, and is "the company I work at".

わたくし は ほん を よむ ーー> わたくし の よむ ほん
わたくし は おにぎり を たべる ーー> わたくし の たべる おにぎり

what is the difference between くださる and あげる?


Japanese makes a distinction in the direction when things are given. A first hint here is that the root of くださる (下さる) is "Down" and the root of あげる (上げる) is "Up."

what does n desu add to the sentence ?


It indicates that the preceding sentence is an explanation for something. In English, it has the same effect as "It's that..."

黒田さん は コピイした しりよう どうして おきます か?
the answer to that question was
北村さん のつくえ の うえ に おいておきます 

that is wrong rite ? i mean it makes no sense


Something seems wrong here. Are you sure you read/copied them right? For one thing, "document" is しりょう, not しりよう.
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Re: i have a bunch of silly questions

Postby NocturnalOcean » Wed 10.13.2010 1:12 am

AJBryant wrote:
わたし は 会社 つとめています.
わたしの つとめている 会社

how comes we use the same verb in both structure shouldn't one be employing and the other
employed
First, the verb means "work" not "employ."

The first sentence is "I work at a company" (and should be 会社  つとめています). The second is not a full sentence but just a phrase, and is "the company I work at".


Actually it is 会社に勤めています.
勤める takes に.

You could also use の下で勤める which is an exception.

Otherwise 働く uses で、 ex. 会社で働いています
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Re: i have a bunch of silly questions

Postby micahcowan » Wed 10.13.2010 12:17 pm

AJBryant wrote:First, the verb means "work" not "employ."

NocturnalOcean wrote:Actually it is 会社に勤めています.


For this reason, つとめる is often described as meaning "is employed at ~" rather than simply "work", as it gets you a bit closer to both the usage pattern, and the connotations. But yeah, it's not "employ". My dictionary gives it as the following (when written with 勤, as opposed to 務 or 努): 「会社や役所など、決まった場所で働く」
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Re: i have a bunch of silly questions

Postby AJBryant » Wed 10.13.2010 6:20 pm

NocturnalOcean wrote:
Actually it is 会社に勤めています.
勤める takes に.

You could also use の下で勤める which is an exception.

Otherwise 働く uses で、 ex. 会社で働いています


Dagnabbit. You know, something sounded off to me about that, but I didn't stop to think about it. You know, as I think about it, I think I've been making that same mistake with で勤める for about 30 years. Sigh.
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Re: i have a bunch of silly questions

Postby NileCat » Wed 10.13.2010 6:58 pm

Tony, 会社で勤めてます is actually used among many Japanese people. It doesn't sound that weird in our ordinary conversation. That's why nobody hasn't noticed you weren't using it deliberately, I guess.
How about "平日にデートなんて無理です。会社でお勤めしてますから"? In this case, "会社に" doesn't work. 会社で勤めてる could imply the nuance that you are a decent employee of a decent company in our colloquialism,
How about this?
A: "これからお勤めなの"
B: "え? 会社に?"
A: "バカ、お店に決まってるでしょ。もう銀座で10年勤めてるわ。その前は新橋の店で3年お勤めしてたけどね"
Here, お勤め specifically means to work as a hostess at a hostess club.
And how about this?
”世間じゃ、俺が勤め帰りだってだけで、白い目で見られるんだ”
Here, 勤める means to serve in prison.
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Re: i have a bunch of silly questions

Postby AJBryant » Wed 10.13.2010 9:36 pm

NileCat wrote:Tony, 会社で勤めてます is actually used among many Japanese people. It doesn't sound that weird in our ordinary conversation. That's why nobody hasn't noticed you weren't using it deliberately, I guess.


That's it. I'm going to start drinking. ;)

Thanks for an interesting post. That bit about the prison was something I haven't seen before. (I must hang around with nice people. ;) )
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Re: i have a bunch of silly questions

Postby NileCat » Thu 10.14.2010 1:56 pm

Ah, I think I should add something about my previous post.
In terms of prison thing, the proper kanji is 務める as in 刑期を務める. "お勤め" is only used in a kind of sarcastic way or a kind of joke, because some people could assume the imprisonment as "service/work/job". Please note that it is an "incorrect usage". :)
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