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くりる/くる

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くりる/くる

Postby ミルズさん » Mon 10.25.2010 10:39 am

くりる and くる both mean to borrow. How do I know which is best to use and what is the difference.

Aside from the fact one is a ichidan and one is a godan verb I don't see what the difference is? My teacher taught me Kuriru and my book has Kuru; it's a little confusing. Add to the mix that Kureru sounds very similiar and you can see why I'm going in circles here.

Any idea how/when to use each?
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Re: くりる/くる

Postby takiras » Mon 10.25.2010 10:58 am

Do you mean かりる/かる?

After googling '借りる 借る 使い分け', I found this page, that seems to give a plausible explanation.

If I understand right, originally, it was 借る, but then in Kantou it changed to 借りる, so that's now the more standard way of saying it, however, 借る remains as a pronunciation outside of Kantou.
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Re: くりる/くる

Postby Setaceau » Mon 10.25.2010 12:27 pm

Could I put some comments as one of a native Japanese?
I have never heard くりる whole in my life. It sounds like a joke of くる.

くる = 来る = come, こない = 来ない = don't come, (こずに = 来ずに = without comming),
きた = 来た= came (simple past)
こい = 来い = come on, きて = 来て = please come (It sounds like a female's word)
And as an optional way, くるんだ = 来るんだ = You need to come (with me).
I can imagine that the person who said 来るんだ is grabing a hand of a child.
Yes, it sounds like a forceful attitude as well as 来い. Because the person has desided
it already without a parmission of the child (sorry it isn't mean that it should be a
child, but weaker one than the speaker.)

Is there anything else? I'm not sure, but perhaps thase are enough for you. Because
we rarely use other formes actually. If you find other forms, they might be dialects
or old fashions, if I didn't forget another one.

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Re: くりる/くる

Postby ミルズさん » Mon 10.25.2010 9:53 pm

Sorry >.<

かりる かる not Ku. I was in a hurry when I typed that.
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Re: くりる/くる

Postby chikara » Mon 10.25.2010 10:37 pm

ミルズさん wrote:Sorry >.<

かりる かる not Ku. I was in a hurry when I typed that.

takiras wrote:..... If I understand right, originally, it was 借る, but then in Kantou it changed to 借りる, so that's now the more standard way of saying it, however, 借る remains as a pronunciation outside of Kantou.

Further to that EDICT lists 借りる as a "Priority" entry, i.e. among approximately 20K words deemed to be common in Japanese, where as 借る is not listed as a "Priority" entry but is marked as a Kansai-ben (ksb) variant. So while neither is wrong 借りる is the more commonly used outside of Kansai. For what it is worth Google supports this, 3,580K hits to 79K.

From WWWJDIC;
借りる 【かりる】 (v1,vt) (1) to borrow; to have a loan; (2) to rent; to hire; (P)
借る 【かる】 (v5r,vt) (1) (ksb:) (See 借りる) to borrow; to have a loan; (2) to rent; to hire
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Re: くりる/くる

Postby ミルズさん » Tue 10.26.2010 10:25 am

Ok guys and girls, thanks very much for your help. Sorry I typed it incorrectly the first time, i'll be more careful in future.
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Re: くりる/くる

Postby Setaceau » Tue 10.26.2010 11:50 am

Oh, don't warry. I don't mind. I always make mistakes.
OK. 借る might be used only Kansai area. I agree.
But I know 虎の威を借る狐 とらのいをかるきつね is a very famous story.
I'm not sure but 借る could be old Japanese too.
When you borrow something, you would worry if you can.
In my (not-sure) theory, 借りる has the mean of able.
I mean 借る+ able became 借りる. (How' debious stupid theory.)
Actually, 借りた includes the nuance of 借りることができた. (Really?)
But still, 借れる, 借りれるand 借りられる are all natural Japanese^^;
I think 借りられる should be the best one.
If you confuse which is the best, you can always use 借りることができた.
何々することができた form is very long version but natural and polite
and almost always correct.
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Re: くりる/くる

Postby AJBryant » Tue 10.26.2010 7:16 pm

Setaceau wrote:(is studing English and a fan of Sophie Marceau^^;)


French might be better for that. ;)
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