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値段が高いレストランはあまり好きじゃな ---- I MEAN WHAT?

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値段が高いレストランはあまり好きじゃな ---- I MEAN WHAT?

Postby damkay » Sat 01.08.2011 5:32 pm

i have a doubt with this phrase, i think! the adjetive 高い should be before price (値段) because is the price that is high, you see im learning from this site: http://www.guidetojapanese.org/learn/grammar
and the translation is: Don't like high price restaurants very much.
that doesn't make sense to me XD
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Re: 値段が高いレストランはあまり好きじゃな ---- I MEAN WHAT?

Postby NileCat » Sat 01.08.2011 6:13 pm

値段が高い=price is high
高い値段=high price
値段が高いレストラン=the "price-is-high" restaurant
I don't like pricey restaurants very much.
Makes sense?
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Re: 値段が高いレストランはあまり好きじゃな ---- I MEAN WHAT?

Postby becki_kanou » Sat 01.08.2011 6:19 pm

The sentence is fine as it is. It is a common modifying phrase XがY,Z and can usually be rephrased with の as well as が.

髪が(の)長い少女= A girl with long hair
足が(の)速い学生 = a student with fast legs (i.e. who runs quickly)
値段が(の)高いレストラン= a restaurant with high prices

(Ninja'd by Nilecat since I took too long, but I'll post it anyway.)
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Re: 値段が高いレストランはあまり好きじゃな ---- I MEAN WHAT?

Postby NileCat » Sat 01.08.2011 6:52 pm

Sorry, becki! :)

That’s actually a common problem which annoys many simultaneous translators.
In English, you can just add information at the end of the phrase, right?
I saw.
I saw a girl.
I saw a girl with long hair.
On the other hand, in Japanese, you have to insert additional information in the middle of the sentence.
私は見ました。
私は女の子を見ました。
私は髪の長い女の子を見ました。
You can’t see the main verb until the sentence ends.

I saw a girl with long hair entered the store. ← *enter the store
私は髪の長い女の子がその店に入るのを見ました。
Do you see the frustration of the simultaneous translators? :D
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Re: 値段が高いレストランはあまり好きじゃな ---- I MEAN WHAT?

Postby chikara » Sun 01.09.2011 9:01 pm

NileCat wrote:.....
I saw a girl with long hair entered the store.
私は髪の長い女の子がその店に入るのを見ました。
.......

すみません。

NileCat-san, since you asked, it is "enter" not "entered". "Saw" gives the sentence past tense, just as 見ました does in the Japanese, but what you saw in the past was a girl enter (入る) the store.

:bow:
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Re: 値段が高いレストランはあまり好きじゃな ---- I MEAN WHAT?

Postby Hyperworm » Sun 01.09.2011 9:09 pm

Or "entering", though I suppose strictly that's a different tense.

Also, "simultaneous translator" -- I'm not confident enough to say the term is never used, but it seems to be describing what I'd have called an "interpreter".
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Re: 値段が高いレストランはあまり好きじゃな ---- I MEAN WHAT?

Postby NileCat » Mon 01.10.2011 5:19 am

chikara wrote:
NileCat wrote:.....
I saw a girl with long hair entered the store.
私は髪の長い女の子がその店に入るのを見ました。
.......

すみません。

NileCat-san, since you asked, it is "enter" not "entered". "Saw" gives the sentence past tense, just as 見ました does in the Japanese, but what you saw in the past was a girl enter (入る) the store.

:bow:

Qoops! Basic grammar... :blush:
Thanks for your pointing out.

Hyperworm wrote:Also, "simultaneous translator" -- I'm not confident enough to say the term is never used, but it seems to be describing what I'd have called an "interpreter".

I learned so at school. But for some reason many Americans I met called them translators, not interpreters, even when officially introduced as interpreters. That's why I was under the impression that the term is more commonly used even if it's inaccurate. But it seems I was wrong. Thanks!
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Re: 値段が高いレストランはあまり好きじゃな ---- I MEAN WHAT?

Postby two_heads_talking » Mon 01.10.2011 1:47 pm

Hyperworm wrote:Or "entering", though I suppose strictly that's a different tense.

Also, "simultaneous translator" -- I'm not confident enough to say the term is never used, but it seems to be describing what I'd have called an "interpreter".


It's definately used. The US Army uses it to describe what interpreters must be able to do in some circumstances. It's probably due to ease of description. Even though translation and interpretation are completely different, The Army uses one term to describe the other, as I know for a fact there are no 'simultaneous translation' positions needed in the Army. Simultaneous Interpreting on the other hand is almost a daily thing for Interpreters, however the job description will most likely have 'simultaneous translation' ability a must, in the requirements.

Of course, I realize the Army is hardly the 'end all, be all' for definitions, in this case, it bears merit.
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Re: 値段が高いレストランはあまり好きじゃな ---- I MEAN WHAT?

Postby chikara » Mon 01.10.2011 5:03 pm

NileCat wrote:.... for some reason many Americans I met called them translators, not interpreters, even when officially introduced as interpreters. .......

I had never heard the term "simultaneous translator" before.

two_heads_talking wrote:.... The US Army uses it to describe what interpreters must be able to do in some circumstances. ......

Of course, I realize the Army is hardly the 'end all, be all' for definitions, in this case, it bears merit.

Is it widely used in the USA outside of the armed forces?

Nicole Kidman and Sean Penn starring in The Simultaneous Translator just doesn't sound right to me. :P
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Re: 値段が高いレストランはあまり好きじゃな ---- I MEAN WHAT?

Postby becki_kanou » Mon 01.10.2011 7:03 pm

Nilecat-
You are absolutely right. I have some experience with interpretation (on an amateur basis) and it can be difficult since you must wait until the end of the sentence to know if the it is positive or negative, or a statement or a conjecture. I don't recall if you are a fan of manzai or not, but Punk Boo-boo made great use of this feature of Japanese in their manzai routine at M-1 this year. (Unfortunately I couldn't find a clip.)
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Re: 値段が高いレストランはあまり好きじゃな ---- I MEAN WHAT?

Postby damkay » Mon 01.10.2011 9:53 pm

XD seems like you guys have diverge a litle from the point, hahaha but ok, what i understand is that i can use:

nedan ga takai resutoran wa amari suki janai
OR
takai nedan resutoran wa amari suki janai....

right??

AND please use romaji for me, im not to use to kanji.
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Re: 値段が高いレストランはあまり好きじゃな ---- I MEAN WHAT?

Postby Ongakuka » Mon 01.10.2011 10:35 pm

nedan ga takai resutoran wa amari suki janai


I'm pretty sure this is fine, but you could also say 'nedan no takai resutoran wa amari suki janai.'

takai nedan resutoran wa amari suki janai....


For this you definitely need to insert 'no' between 'takai' and 'nedan' :

'takai nedan no resutoran wa amai suki janai.'
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Re: 値段が高いレストランはあまり好きじゃな ---- I MEAN WHAT?

Postby furrykef » Tue 01.11.2011 8:35 am

Ongakuka wrote:but you could also say 'nedan no takai resutoran wa amari suki janai.'

While this is true, let's not hopelessly confuse damkay yet, OK? :)

Ongakuka wrote:For this you definitely need to insert 'no' between 'takai' and 'nedan' :

You mean "nedan" and "resutoran" (though the example sentence you provided got it right, though it misspelled "amari" as "amai").

Here's the difference, grammatically speaking:
nedan ga takai resutoran = the restaurant whose prices are high
takai nedan no resutoran = the restaurant of high prices
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Re: 値段が高いレストランはあまり好きじゃな ---- I MEAN WHAT?

Postby two_heads_talking » Tue 01.11.2011 9:48 am

chikara wrote:
two_heads_talking wrote:.... The US Army uses it to describe what interpreters must be able to do in some circumstances. ......

Of course, I realize the Army is hardly the 'end all, be all' for definitions, in this case, it bears merit.

Is it widely used in the USA outside of the armed forces?

:P


In some translation circles, yes. Although I am about 8 years removed from doing that sort of thing, so I can't really say what is currently being used. Honestly I can only speak of my time while serving in the Army. Even civilian translator/interpreters had different lingo for what they were doing. Even though it was the same thing. In fact my Japanese counterparts had differing lingo as well, depending on where they were stationed.

On a side note, there was one interpreter, who was a bit of a ham that made name cards for all the US interperters. Except rather than interpreter as our duty description, he had put interrupter.. Of course the US soldiers would catch it right off and ask what it meant, but the Japanese wouldn't notice it right away. He said it was the only way to get a laugh at their expense and save face at the same time. I thought it was perfectly hilarious.
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Re: 値段が高いレストランはあまり好きじゃな ---- I MEAN WHAT?

Postby NileCat » Tue 01.11.2011 11:08 am

chikara wrote:Nicole Kidman and Sean Penn starring in The Simultaneous Translator just doesn't sound right to me. :P

Hehe :D. But I suppose many average English speakers are less familiar with interpreters compared to people like us who speak “minor” language.
Generally speaking, simultaneous interpreters/translators(同時通訳) are very different from normal interpreters/translators(通訳). They translate the conversation literally simultaneously. That’s a very special skill that only a few people can acquire. In fact, they earn much more wages than normal interpreters.
But their job is very stressful. When it comes to UN conference level, they assemble a team of three people. They take turns every 20 minutes. While the one is translating, one of the backups helps him/her by offering appropriate technical terms on paper and the other one is checking the results. It looks like a kind of circus art so to speak. I have no idea what is happening in their brains. :lol:

Ah, so sorry damkay-san, it's totally off-topic... :doh:
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