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Name in kanji using ateji

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Name in kanji using ateji

Postby chikara » Fri 01.21.2011 12:28 am

This is the kanji embroidered on a karate belt and supposedly reads as "Lesley".

lesley_clip.jpg
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I would expect "Lesley" to be レスリー phonetically in Japanese.

The first two kanji are 礼 (レイ) and 寿 (ス, also ジュ and シュウ ) so that is レイス....

The third kanji I'm really not sure of. It could be 莉 (リ) although I have to use my imagination to see the bottom right part.

The fourth I believe is 衣 (イ).

So that would give 礼寿莉衣 as レイスリー.

I would appreciate if anyone whose ability to read hand written kanji is better than mine, which is quite poor, could confirm or correct my reading. :bow:
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Re: Name in kanji using ateji

Postby AJBryant » Fri 01.21.2011 12:54 am

Nope, you got it. :)
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Re: Name in kanji using ateji

Postby chikara » Fri 01.21.2011 1:25 am

トニーさん、どうもありがとう。 :bow:
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Re: Name in kanji using ateji

Postby two_heads_talking » Fri 01.21.2011 12:58 pm

you'd think it was easy to change leslie into resuli- but no, the Japanese add sounds to make it sound even more foreign.. LOL
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Re: Name in kanji using ateji

Postby chikara » Sat 01.22.2011 12:09 am

two_heads_talking wrote:you'd think it was easy to change leslie into resuli- but no, the Japanese add sounds to make it sound even more foreign.. LOL

If you mean the use of レイ instead of simply レ that may be because, according to my copy of The Kodansha Kanji Learners Dictionary, there is no kanji with an onyomi of レ. :)
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Re: Name in kanji using ateji

Postby Hyperworm » Sat 01.22.2011 12:50 am

Interestingly, the characters れ and レ both originate from 礼. (according to 大辞泉@Yahoo!)

I've seen situations before where the normal reading of a kanji is cut short in its occurrence within a name, not conforming to any existing readings of the kanji. The name「れな」 springs to mind. So this could originally have been written with the intention of pronouncing 「礼」 as 「れ」, even though it's "non-standard".
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Re: Name in kanji using ateji

Postby chikara » Sun 01.23.2011 8:38 pm

Hyperworm wrote:Interestingly, the characters れ and レ both originate from 礼. (according to 大辞泉@Yahoo!)

I've seen situations before where the normal reading of a kanji is cut short in its occurrence within a name, not conforming to any existing readings of the kanji. The name「れな」 springs to mind. So this could originally have been written with the intention of pronouncing 「礼」 as 「れ」, even though it's "non-standard".

礼 certainly has a nanori reading of れ.

The issue I have with using "non-standard" readings or nanori readings when writing non-Japanese names is that you have to already know what the name is in order to "correctly" read the kanji.

These are a couple of other English names written in kanji that were done by a native Japanese speaker for embroidering on karate belts, 光威多 and 慈恵詩香.
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Re: Name in kanji using ateji

Postby NileCat » Mon 01.24.2011 2:49 am

chikara wrote:These are a couple of other English names written in kanji that were done by a native Japanese speaker for embroidering on karate belts, 光威多 and 慈恵詩香.

The second one was easy for me.
But first one is tough. コウイタ? doesn't sound right.
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Re: Name in kanji using ateji

Postby chikara » Mon 01.24.2011 3:18 am

NileCat wrote:The second one was easy for me. ...

I can only get the second one if I mix onyomi and kunyomi.

NileCat wrote:.... But first one is tough. コウイタ? doesn't sound right.

The person whose belt it was to be embroidered on was told that it was ピイタア or ピーター. :shock:

Like you I read 光 as コウ. :think:
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Re: Name in kanji using ateji

Postby NileCat » Mon 01.24.2011 3:55 am

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Re: Name in kanji using ateji

Postby mcoelho » Wed 03.30.2011 2:02 pm

Hi all...

I found this posting when googling something that's not very clear to me right now.

When you attempt to write a foreign name (or any other word) in ateji, can you actually mix onyomi and kunyomi in the same word? Or the most proper thing to do would be to stick only to onyomi, or only kunyomi, without mixing?

Take my name for example: Marcelo.

I separated it as マル・セ・ロ. So I came up with 丸世露 ... Maru + se + ro

But "Maru" would be the kunyomi reading for 丸, while the other two would be onyomi. So I'm not sure if mixing is actually permitted.

Can you please help me?

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Re: Name in kanji using ateji

Postby chikara » Wed 03.30.2011 7:05 pm

mcoelho wrote:Hi all...

マルセロさん、TJPへようこそ  :wave:

mcoelho wrote:.... When you attempt to write a foreign name (or any other word) in ateji, can you actually mix onyomi and kunyomi in the same word? Or the most proper thing to do would be to stick only to onyomi, or only kunyomi, without mixing?

Take my name for example: Marcelo.

I separated it as マル・セ・ロ. So I came up with 丸世露 ... Maru + se + ro

But "Maru" would be the kunyomi reading for 丸, while the other two would be onyomi. So I'm not sure if mixing is actually permitted. ......

When writing foreign words phonetically using kanji you should strictly speaking use only onyomi (音読み), on (音, オン) meaning "sound". If you decide to use kunyomi you should use all kunyomi.

However, foreign names and loan words are usually written in katakana.
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