Learn Japanese with JapanesePod101.com

View topic - I have a problem with connecting sentences?

I have a problem with connecting sentences?

Have a Question about some Grammar point? Share it with the world!

I have a problem with connecting sentences?

Postby chibola » Wed 02.16.2011 9:18 pm

I find it easier to learn vocabulary and sentence structure with songs, so I listen to many. However, there's this part in the lyrics of this one song that have me very confused:

永遠のときを越えて  踏みしめる熱い大地
運命の扉開いて  今  羽ばたきたい
無限の夢をかざして  出会いたい燃える命
待っていた  平和の鼓動  ほら  未来を抱きしめて

The first verse was translated as:

"Surpassing the eternal time, I tread upon the hot earth"

I understand, but at the same time don't, why it was translated that way. If I didn't have the translation, I would have probably interpreted it as:

"Surpassing the eternal time, earth on which I tread on"

The first translation would probably make more sense. But I don't understand how it becomes that. I've always thought of the verb (in this case "fumishimeru") as a sort of adjective (another describing word) for the noun that follows it ("daichi," in this case).

The same problem repeats in the 3rd verse.

"deaitai moeru inochi," I would have probably translated as: "A blazing life I want to meet."

roughly: want-to-meet, blazing life. (I treat the verb as a sort of adjective, like I said before)

I'm not even sure what that means, though.

By "I have a problem with connecting sentences" I mean that A) The song is just random and the lyrics don't make sense to me OR B) My Japanese is very bad so I'm unable to make the connection click.

I hope someone understood my question... It' was a bit hard to word (sorry). I would appreciate the help. Maybe some more example with of this usage? I would be eternally grateful. I am really confused and it's going to bother me for life if I don't figure this out (My problems are stubborn like that).

Thank you for reading my question (if you reached the end).
chibola
 
Posts: 15
Joined: Wed 07.21.2010 12:06 am
Native language: Español

Re: I have a problem with connecting sentences?

Postby NileCat » Thu 02.17.2011 8:47 am

I found your question intriguing. You want a reasonable grammatical explanation, correct?
It is a kind of rhetorical device that is commonly used in song lyrics or titles, originally invented in haiku or tanka field.
The keywords here are 倒置 (inversion) and 体言止め (ending a sentence with a noun or noun phrase). Labels are not important, though.

1. 倒置
e.g. I sing a love song.
私はラブソングを歌う is the basic structure, right?
When you want to put some accent on ‘ラブソング’, you can invert the words.
: 私は歌う、ラブソングを。
The effect would be obvious. By putting the word at the end, you can make it sound more impressive.

2. 体言止め
: 私は歌う、ラブソングを
There is another trick to make it more impressive.
私は歌う、ラブソング
By omitting the last particle, you can put a stronger accent on the last word, or you can add a kind of afterglow feeling (like dot dot dot). 


Now, let’s take a look at the lyrics in your question.

永遠のときを越えて 踏みしめる熱い大地
The ordinary sentence structure would be "永遠のときを越えて、熱い大地を踏みしめる" like you supposed.
Inverted one would be "永遠のときを越えて、踏みしめる熱い大地を".
By applying 体言止め, it becomes "永遠のときをこえて、踏みしめる熱い大地".

The second one is the same.
無限の夢をかざして 出会いたい燃える命
燃える命に出会いたい → 出会いたい燃える命に → 出会いたい燃える命

That’s the grammatical explanation.
Hope it helps.
User avatar
NileCat
 
Posts: 1168
Joined: Sat 08.01.2009 2:11 pm
Location: Tokyo
Native language: Japanese

Re: I have a problem with connecting sentences?

Postby Hyperworm » Thu 02.17.2011 10:58 am

Neither spaces in printed song lyrics, nor pauses in the song, necessarily affect the sentence structure. They're often there simply to suit the rhythm/meter of the song, so you shouldn't assume that you can treat the two halves separately. The same applies to line breaks.
So don't read it as two separate lines
「永遠のときを越えて」(=越えている・越えろ?)
「踏みしめる熱い大地」
but instead one line「【永遠のときを越えて、踏みしめる】modifying【熱い大地】」.

Maybe I can improve 越える too...?
Based on this example usage from Google「約3時間ほどかけて・・・ そして1年と1ヶ月ほどの時を越えて・・・ ようやく サイト更新しました」 "After three hours' work... and after (a gap of) a year and a month... I finally updated my site",
can we try translating as "after"?

After time eternal, I step out onto scorching earth
I want to open destiny's door now, and flap my wings
I want to meet fervent lives, holding high an infinity of dreams
The beat of peace I've been waiting for ... come on and embrace your future


I can't quite link up the last line though...

I think you have to accept that there will be songs with lyrics so abstract it's hard to tease a coherent story or even actual meaning out of them, but I like to try my best anyway... XD;
fun translation snippets | need something translated?
BTC@1KMZXgoWiDshQis5Z7feCx8jaiP4QAB2ks
User avatar
Hyperworm
 
Posts: 493
Joined: Tue 11.20.2007 2:26 pm
Native language: English
Gender: Male

Re: I have a problem with connecting sentences?

Postby NileCat » Thu 02.17.2011 11:44 am

Hyperworm, you may enjoy this website.
It's an automatic J-pop lyrics generator. :D
http://jpop.mbtl.net/
User avatar
NileCat
 
Posts: 1168
Joined: Sat 08.01.2009 2:11 pm
Location: Tokyo
Native language: Japanese

Re: I have a problem with connecting sentences?

Postby Hyperworm » Thu 02.17.2011 12:26 pm

凝っていますね、「間奏」までもが含まれています :lol:

個人的には、具体的な物語を語る歌詞が好きです。
Aqua Timezの「しおり」や、supercellの「君の知らない物語」HOME MADE 家族の「流れ星~Shooting Star~」「少年ハート」、など。
fun translation snippets | need something translated?
BTC@1KMZXgoWiDshQis5Z7feCx8jaiP4QAB2ks
User avatar
Hyperworm
 
Posts: 493
Joined: Tue 11.20.2007 2:26 pm
Native language: English
Gender: Male

Re: I have a problem with connecting sentences?

Postby NileCat » Thu 02.17.2011 12:38 pm

I think you have very good taste. :)
User avatar
NileCat
 
Posts: 1168
Joined: Sat 08.01.2009 2:11 pm
Location: Tokyo
Native language: Japanese

Re: I have a problem with connecting sentences?

Postby chibola » Thu 02.17.2011 6:14 pm

... Oh... wow....

THANK YOU SO MUCH TO THE BOTH OF YOU!

I apologize if capitalization makes me seem childish but I'm just so HAPPY I finally understand this! After many years, I can say I get it... ;_;

I'm honestly VERY grateful! I'm so sad I can't give anything in return for your helpful responses. All I can really say is THANK YOU VERY MUCH! It's clear to me now :D
chibola
 
Posts: 15
Joined: Wed 07.21.2010 12:06 am
Native language: Español

Re: I have a problem with connecting sentences?

Postby chikara » Thu 02.17.2011 8:09 pm

NileCat wrote:..... It is a kind of rhetorical device that is commonly used in song lyrics or titles, originally invented in haiku or tanka field.
The keywords here are 倒置 (inversion) ......

NileCat-san, thankyou for yet another excellent explanation. :bow:

In English this word order inversion, or anastrophe, is commonly called Yoda Speak. :P
Don't complain to me that people kick you when you're down. It's your own fault for lying there
User avatar
chikara
 
Posts: 3577
Joined: Tue 07.11.2006 10:48 pm
Location: Australia (SA)
Native language: English (Australian)
Gender: Male


Return to Grammar Questions and Problems

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 14 guests