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日本語 vs 中国語 thread

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Re: 日本語 vs 中国語 thread

Postby furrykef » Tue 11.30.2010 3:23 am

Adriano wrote: = 
私はブラジル人です。  = 我是巴西人。

You sure? I thought 是 was more analogous to だ/です. Chinese has a topic-comment structure, but just because 是 appears after a topic doesn't make it a topic marker.
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Re: 日本語 vs 中国語 thread

Postby Adriano » Fri 12.10.2010 10:58 am

It looks more like an は of chinese though..
Thank you for your explanation! I'll try to give more attention to it!
But particles are not the worst thing to learn in chinese, since almost all of them you already know the kanji and its near meaning from japanese.
The problem is that Mandarin is an entirely new universe, completely apart from any latin language, english or roots to give you a hint, like katakana.
Maybe Japan was once, before it's westernization. :think:
Although its learning can be pretty amusing.
Some examples to illustrate the idea:

下載  down+load
鼠标  mouse+cursor
苹果电脑  literally "Apple Computer"
熊猫  パンダ (xiónɡmāo=the cat-bear)
礼物  プレゼント
亲亲  キスする


UPDATE:

   = 
组织 = 組織
产业 = 産業
紧张 = 緊張
运营 = 運営
购买 = 購買
临时 = 臨時
摄影 = 撮影
职业 = 職業
职务 = 職務
议决权 = 議決権
圣诞节 = 聖誕節
 (not used in Japan, it's クリスマス)
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Postby Adriano » Tue 01.04.2011 4:27 pm

Another quick list I made by myself  :colonthree:
Words with the exact same kanji used in japanese, but with its reading totally different between the chinese pronounciation and japanese 音読み(on-yomi):

美容 [měirónɡ] → biyou
铅笔 [qiānbǐ] → enpitsu (鉛筆)
故乡 [ɡùxiānɡ] → furusato (故郷)
普通 [pǔtōnɡ] → futsuu
幻想 [huànxiǎnɡ] → gensou
发现 [fāxiàn] → hatsugen (発現)
方言 [fānɡyán] → hougen
秘密 [mìmì] → himitsu
方法 [fānɡfǎ] → houhou
鳳凰 [fènghuáng] → hou-ou
法律 [fǎlǜ] → houritsu
评论 [pínɡlùn] → hyouron (評論)
女性 [nǚxìnɡ] → josei
化学 [huàxué] → kagaku
家族 [jiāzú] → kazoku
经验 [jīnɡyàn] → keiken (経験)
健康 [jiànkānɡ] → kenkou
结论 [jiélùn] → ketsuron (結論)
危险 [wēixiǎn] → kiken (危険)
交流 [jiāoliú] → kouryuu
空想 [kōnɡxiǎnɡ] → kuusou
恐龙 [kǒnɡlónɡ] → kyouryuu (恐竜)
名称 [mínɡchēnɡ] → meishou
眼镜 [yǎnjìnɡ] → megane (眼鏡)
目录 [mùlù] → mokuroku (目録)
问题 [wèntí] → mondai (問題)
连续 [liánxù] → renzoku (連続)
隆盛 [lónɡshènɡ] → ryuusei
摄影 [shèyǐnɡ] → satsuei (撮影)
生活 [shēnɡhuó] → seikatsu
成功 [chénɡɡōnɡ] → seikou
社会 [shèhuì] → shakai
食品 [shípǐn] → shokuhin
省略 [shěnɡlüè] → shouryaku



It's worth pointing out that as same as happens with chinese proper nouns spoken by japanese, japanese proper nouns sounds totally different in chinese too.
Years later after met my chinese friend 曲さん, I've found out her real name: Qū (チ)。
Japaneses just called her Kyoku-san because of the on-yomi, instead of Ti-san.
So, if you want to read a japanese city in chinese, just remember the reading of each character (luckily 99,9% of the ideograms has only one reading) and say it together:

東京  = Dōng​jīng (simp: 东京
​神奈川 = Shénnàichuān
横浜   = Héng​bīn​


UPDATE:

归化 = 帰化
劳动 = 労働
习惯 = 習慣
高层 = 高層
攻击 = 攻撃
袭击 = 襲撃
娱乐 = 娯楽
炼乳 = 練乳
陪审 = 陪審
关连 = 関連
卫生 = 衛生
实验场 = 実験場
Last edited by Adriano on Tue 03.15.2011 4:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 日本語 vs 中国語 thread

Postby ss » Thu 02.17.2011 10:30 pm

Furrykef wrote :

Adriano wrote:
是 = は
私はブラジル人です。  = 我是巴西人。


You sure? I thought 是 was more analogous to だ/です. Chinese has a topic-comment structure, but just because 是 appears after a topic doesn't make it a topic marker.


私はブラジル人です。  = 我是巴西人。

It seems like a sentence like this one blends well with the Chinese 「是」, I agree it's quite forceful to make a conclusion basing on one use of 「は」。

Take for instance, this sentence 「彼はテニスコートでテニスをします。」
In this case, it's 動作, in Chinese it means 他网球场打网球。

From Matsuo Bashou 松尾芭蕉, there is 「是より殺生石行。館代より馬にて送らる。」
So, my impression of 「是」 is 「これ」. But in Chinese, it is made up of two characters 「这是」。
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Re: 日本語 vs 中国語 thread

Postby abyx » Fri 02.18.2011 3:03 am

I think the corresponding word for は(or を) does not exist in chinese, 是 equals です in japanese and is/am/are in english, although in classic chinese 是 does can be used to mean "this"

Take for instance, this sentence 「彼はテニスコートでテニスをします。」
In this case, it's 動作, in Chinese it means 他在网球场打网球。

here 在 equals the で particle, a preposition used to indicate place/time
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Re: 日本語 vs 中国語 thread

Postby ss » Fri 02.18.2011 4:39 am

abyx wrote:
I think the corresponding word for は(or を) does not exist in chinese, 是 equals です in japanese and is/am/are in english, although in classic chinese 是 does can be used to mean "this"

Take for instance, this sentence 「彼はテニスコートでテニスをします。」
In this case, it's 動作, in Chinese it means 他在网球场打网球。


here 在 equals the で particle, a preposition used to indicate place/time


abyxさん、thanks for your comment. I think You're right in saying 在 equals the で particle, a preposition used to indicate place/time.

I remember you in this thread

You know, I'm not that active on the forum for quite a while after my surgery. While it's good to have a good debate over some topics, but I'm sorry, I've been wondering why you have only 2 posts, and all your comments are obviously directed at me. (I'm not angry with you, am just curious.)

To go on what you've posted, I would like to add this. I'm not saying that I'm 100% right, it's merely my own observation.

「是」 sometimes is equivalent to です or は, sometimes not at all. Some just click well with the Chinese translation, some simply don't. Don't ask me why, it just doesn't sound right to me.

Consider this sentence 「彼は友達とテニスコートでテニスをします。」(他和朋友在网球场打网球。)
What is the 「は」 doing there?

今は寒いです。(现在很冷。) <---- no 是
It's cold.
What does this 「は」 or 「です」 here serve as?

今日は朝から雨が降っています。(今天从早上就下雨。) <---- no 是
It has been raining since this morning.
What is the 「は」 doing here?

しかし、風は吹いていません。 (但是没有刮风。)<---- no 是
But, it's not windy. (There's no wind)
Why 「は」?
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Re: 日本語 vs 中国語 thread

Postby Adriano » Mon 02.21.2011 5:06 pm

And this discussion may perfectly make clear how chinese language is an "universe", a simple です can be such a contentious issue. :sweatdrop:
Those doubts about grammar and what can be equals to what is quite common to people already used to different languages and their tricky grammar rules..
But the worse is when the kanjis used to express words between the languages changes drastically.
I'm talking about this:

  = 
  = 
鸡蛋 = 
青蛙 = 
稻草 = 
章鱼 = 




Most of chinese characters and their uses are way easier to "figure out" than some of 和製英語 in カタカナ、 like 蓝牙 (literally "blue tooth").
But some just doesn't make sense: 篮球, literally "blue ball", but how should I know they're talking about basketball?
Some even mix chinese phonetic with free transliterations from the character meaning to coin a loan word and at the same time adding a "full meaning" by choosing the characters to be used, like the word 黑客 (hēikè) to the word "hacker" (literally "black guest").

UPDATE:

   =  (or in ありえない筆画数 mode chinese :twisted:
风车 = 風車
恶梦 = 悪夢
胜负 = 勝負
拥护 = 擁護
继续 = 継続
发热 = 発熱
适龄 = 適齢
灾害 = 災害
疗养 = 療養
跃进 = 躍進
统计 = 統計
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Re: 日本語 vs 中国語 thread

Postby amego » Thu 03.17.2011 7:31 am

Most of chinese characters and their uses are way easier to "figure out" than some of 和製英語 in カタカナ、 like 蓝牙 (literally "blue tooth").
But some just doesn't make sense: 蓝球, literally "blue ball", but how should I know they're talking about basketball?


Hi, you mixed up 蓝 and 篮...蓝牙 is blue tooth, correct, but 篮球 is literally basket ball
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Re: 日本語 vs 中国語 thread

Postby Adriano » Thu 03.17.2011 8:49 am

amego wrote:
Most of chinese characters and their uses are way easier to "figure out" than some of 和製英語 in カタカナ、 like 蓝牙 (literally "blue tooth").
But some just doesn't make sense: 蓝球, literally "blue ball", but how should I know they're talking about basketball?


Hi, you mixed up 蓝 and 篮...蓝牙 is blue tooth, correct, but 篮球 is literally basket ball


Hi amego!! :D that explains a lot! 1 or 2 strokes added up can change everything!
and ....(both lán:sweatdrop:

A good chance to update the "tricky" and almost unnoticeable differences between JP-CH kanjis

Adriano wrote:隐 = 隠
别 = 別
巢 = 巣
换 = 換
两 = 両
携带 = 携帯
经济 = 経済
钱   = 銭


with this list:

鐮 = 鎌
收集 = 収集
宿舍 = 宿舎
烧酒 = 焼酎
沉默 = 沈黙
不满 = 不満
欺诈 = 詐欺
热带 = 熱帯
污染 = 汚染
效率 = 効率
欄杆 = 欄干
命運 = 運命
满月 = 満月
山脉 = 山脈
铁路 = 鉄道



UPDATE:

   = 
技术 = 技術
乐观 = 楽観
连载 = 連載

灵媒 = 霊媒靈媒
溃疡 = 潰瘍
酿造 = 醸造
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Re: 日本語 vs 中国語 thread

Postby Adriano » Thu 11.24.2011 8:49 am

Some Japanese Prefectures ( = ) in chinese:


东京 = 東京
广岛 = 広島
千叶 = 千葉
冲绳 = 沖縄
福岛 = 福島
兵库 = 兵庫
德岛 = 徳島
静冈 = 静岡
冈山 = 岡山
群马 = 群馬
爱媛 = 愛媛
爱知 = 愛知
福冈 = 福岡
长崎 = 長崎
滋贺 = 滋賀
佐贺 = 佐賀
鸟取 = 鳥取
鹿儿岛 = 鹿児島




UPDATE:
(some "extra-simplified" kanjis)


暗杀 = 暗殺
遗产 = 遺産
意识 = 意識
医疗 = 医療
构造 = 構造
义务 = 義務
袭击 = 襲撃
专门 = 専門
设备 = 設備

纤细 = 繊細纖細
杂志 = 雑誌
实习 = 実習
时机 = 時機
斗鸡 = 闘鶏
电气 = 電気
复杂 = 複雑
标识 = 標識
无敌 = 無敵
无线 = 無線
乐队 = 楽隊
业师 = 業師
网罗 = 網羅
剧场 = 劇場
影响 = 影響
窑业 = 窯業
训练 = 訓練
宪法 = 憲法
书评 = 書評
营业 = 営業
队长 = 隊長
优胜 = 優勝
拥护 = 擁護
奋战 = 奮戦
卫星 = 衛星
开设 = 開設
连浊 = 連濁
幻灭 = 幻滅
兴奋 = 奮闘

绮丽 = 綺麗きれい
严肃 = 厳粛
灵长 = 霊長
监狱 = 監獄
农场 = 農場
庆贺 = 慶賀
趋势 = 趨勢
奴隶 = 奴隷
赔偿 = 賠償
审查 = 審査
战术 = 戦術
仓库 = 倉庫
树龄 = 樹齢
调节 = 調節
惊叹 = 驚嘆
忧虑 = 憂慮
仪式 = 儀式
野兽 = 野獣
战场 = 戦場
陆军 = 陸軍
轻视 = 軽視
战线 = 戦線
获得 = 獲得
相扑 = 相撲
偿还 = 償還
惩罚 = 懲罰
创业 = 創業
绚烂 = 絢爛
产妇 = 産婦
弃权 = 棄権
疗养 = 療養
设备 = 設備
经纬 = 経緯
无偿 = 無償
动机 = 動機
阴谋 = 陰謀
补习 = 補習
忧虑 = 憂慮

蜡烛 = 蝋燭蠟燭
毕业 = 卒業畢業
严肃 = 厳粛
忧郁 = 憂鬱
异文化 = 異文化
记忆术 = 記憶術
防卫厅 = 防衛庁
乘务员 = 乗務員
生产现场 = 生産現場



Compare the number of strokes for the word "Enviromentalism":

环境保护论
環境保護論



p.s.: sorry if I've previously posted any of these words before.. for time saving reasons, all I could do was to save the "new" words in a text file to post it later here for the kanji-addicted fellows. :ninja: :sweatdrop:
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Re: 日本語 vs 中国語 thread

Postby Adriano » Fri 12.09.2011 9:10 am

Some Japanese Prefectures ( = ) in chinese:

东京 = 東京
广岛 = 広島
千叶 = 千葉
冲绳 = 沖縄
福岛 = 福島
兵库 = 兵庫
德岛 = 徳島
静冈 = 静岡
冈山 = 岡山
群马 = 群馬
爱媛 = 愛媛
爱知 = 愛知
福冈 = 福岡
长崎 = 長崎
滋贺 = 滋賀
佐贺 = 佐賀
鸟取 = 鳥取
鹿儿岛 = 鹿児島




and for phonetic comparison, the major islands and some japanese prefectures/capitals in Chinese:


北海道 Běihǎidào (ほっかいどう)
本州 Běnzhōu (ほんしゅう)
四国 Sìguó (しこく)
九州 Jiǔzhōu (きゅうしゅう)



爱媛 Àiyuàn (えひめ)
爱知 Àizhī (あいち)

兵库 Bīngkù (ひょうご)

长崎 Chángqí (ながさき)
长野 Chángyě (ながの)
盛冈 Chénggāng (もりおか)
冲绳 Chōngshéng (おきなわ)
茨城 Cíchéng (いばらき)

大分 Dàfēn (おおいた)
大津 Dàjīn (おおつ)
岛根 Dǎogēn (しまね)
德岛 Dédǎo (とくしま)

福岛 Fúdǎo (ふくしま)
福冈 Fúgāng (ふくおか)
福井 Fújǐng (ふくい)
富山 Fùshān (とやま)

冈山 Gāngshān (おかやま)
高松 Gāosōng (たかまつ)
高知 Gāozhī (こうち)
宫城 Gōngchéng (みやぎ)
宫崎 Gōngqí (みやざき)

和歌山 Hégēshān (わかやま)
横滨 Héngbīn (よこはま)

甲府 Jiǎfǔ (こうふ)
 Jīn (つ)
静冈 Jìnggāng (しずおか)
金泽 Jīnzé (かなざわ)

枥木 Lìmù (とちぎ)
鹿儿岛 Lù'érdǎo (かごしま)

名古屋 Mínggǔwū (なごや)

那霸 Nàbà (なは)
奈良 Nàiliáng (なら)
鸟取 Niǎoqǔ (とっとり)

前桥 Qiánqiáo (まえばし)
千叶 Qiānyè (ちば)
岐阜 Qífù (ぎふ)
青森 Qīngsēn (あおもり)
秋田 Qiūtián (あきた)
埼玉 Qíyù (さいたま)
群马 Qúnmǎ (ぐんま)

三重 Sānchóng (みえ)
山梨 Shānlí (やまなし)
山形 Shānxíng (やまがた)
神户 Shénhù (こうべ)
神奈川 Shénnàichuān (かながわ)
石川 Shíchuān (いしかわ)
水户 Shuǐhù (みと)
松江 Sōngjiāng (まつえ)
松山 Sōngshān (まつやま)

香川 Xiāngchuān (かがわ)
仙台 Xiāntái (せんだい)
新潟 Xīnxì (にいがた)
熊本 Xióngběn (くまもと)

岩手 Yánshǒu (いわて)
宇都宫 Yǔdōugōng (うつのみや)

滋贺 Zīhè (しが)
佐贺 Zuǒhè (さが)
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Re: 日本語 vs 中国語 thread

Postby Adriano » Fri 12.09.2011 9:19 am

and here's a video with all the 56 族(ethnicities) of China (a country that is proudly not as homogeneous as Japan), and some interesting kanjis:

56 Ethnicities of China!

苗族
彝族
侗族
黎族

傣族 (最可爱的! :sweatdrop:
畲族
佤族
羌族
怒族
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Re: 日本語 vs 中国語 thread

Postby john2 » Wed 01.11.2012 1:14 pm

the ideal language would be japanese, with 25 distinct vowel qualities... well okay i'll just pick japanese.
I think i much prefer japanese grammar.
then again the discussion makes it seam like i know more about japanese grammar.
still I like it more regardless.
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Re: 日本語 vs 中国語 thread

Postby Adriano » Mon 02.17.2014 11:49 pm

Adriano wrote:
Adriano wrote:
A good chance to update the "tricky" and almost unnoticeable differences between JP-CH kanjis


隐 = 隠
别 = 別
巢 = 巣
换 = 換
两 = 両
携带 = 携帯
经济 = 経済
钱   = 銭


with this list:

鐮 = 鎌
收集 = 収集
宿舍 = 宿舎
烧酒 = 焼酎
沉默 = 沈黙
不满 = 不満
欺诈 = 詐欺
热带 = 熱帯
污染 = 汚染
效率 = 効率
欄杆 = 欄干
命運 = 運命
满月 = 満月
山脉 = 山脈
铁路 = 鉄道





好久不见 :wave: お久しぶり O/
just adding another simple list of "tricky" kanjis :sweatdrop:


鄰  = 隣 (邻)
入侵 = 侵入
压制 = 圧制
炼乳 = 練乳
分歧 = 分岐
徒歩 = 徒步
减轻 = 軽減
渴望 = 渇望
纲要 = 要綱
崇拜 = 崇拝
模仿 = 模倣
热情 = 情熱
抚育 = 扶育
舞蹈 = 舞踏
效果 = 効果
嫉妒 = 嫉妬
冰山 = 氷山
道德 = 道徳
嫉妒 = 嫉妬
据点 = 拠点
设施 = 施設
海拔 = 海抜
插入 = 挿入
笔迹 = 筆跡
设施 = 施設
仿佛 = 彷彿
纯粹 = 純粋
谦逊 = 謙遜
陶瓷器 = 陶磁器





UPDATE:

 = 
 = 
 = 
 = 
产业 = 産業
变态 = 変態
财产 = 財産
义务 = 義務
临时 = 臨時
单纯 = 単純
听众 = 聴衆
发达 = 発達
万岁 = 万歳
伪证 = 偽証
岛屿 = 島嶼
彻底 = 徹底
征税 = 徴税
偿还 = 償還
强夺 = 強奪
确认 = 確認
剧场 = 劇場
复杂 = 複雑
扑灭 = 撲滅
华侨 = 華僑
浓缩 = 濃縮
复兴 = 復興
惩罚 = 懲罰
强奸 = 強姦
复习 = 復習
创业 = 創業
严肃 = 厳粛
幽灵 = 幽霊
军阀 = 軍閥
转发 = 転送
悬赏 = 懸賞
范畴 = 範疇
让步 = 譲歩
简洁 = 簡潔
投掷 = 投擲
儿戏 = 児戯
记忆 = 記憶
疗养 = 療養
构筑 = 構築
灾难 = 災難
战况 = 戦況
杂种 = 雑種
顾虑 = 顧慮
独创 = 独創
陆军 = 陸軍
谦逊 = 謙遜
报复 = 報復
揭发 = 摘発
实习 = 実習
递减 = 逓減
阵营 = 陣営
纯洁 = 純潔
收获 = 収穫
守备队 = 守備隊
搜查网 = 捜査網
书记官 = 書記官
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Adriano
 
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