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"へと"?

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"へと"?

Postby chibola » Thu 02.17.2011 11:16 pm

"煌めく星屑に願いを込めながら、永久なる銀河へと想いを響かせるよ"

Translation it came with:

"While wishing upon the twinkling stardust, I’ll make my thoughts echo toward the everlasting Milky Way"

Would "eto" here serve the same purpose and function that "ni" or "he" would? If so, then why not just use "ni" or "he"? What's the difference? It's the first time I've seen this "eto," and although I've searched the web, I can't find anything on it.

Help would be very much appreciated. Maybe some more examples? I'm confused.

Thank you in advance!
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Re: "へと"?

Postby ss » Fri 02.18.2011 1:03 am

Seems like you're asking the same song in this thread

chibola wrote:
It's the first time I've seen this "eto,"....


森へ走り続けて行きたい。
へ here just indicate the direction. (Someone wants to keep running to the forest.)

森へと走り続けて行きたい。
with the と, it emphases on the direction you're heading to. (Someone wants to keep running forward to the forest.)
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Re: "へと"?

Postby chibola » Fri 02.18.2011 8:56 am

Oh... okay... I think I understand! :think:


THANK YOU FOR THE HELP!

And, yes, the excerpt is from the same song :). Most of my questions will probably be on songs, literature, or short stories. And yet, I don't understand colloquial Japanese and slang... I won't worry about that for now, though.

I appreciate you taking the time to answer.
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Re: "へと"?

Postby Hyperworm » Fri 02.18.2011 9:18 am

I guess へと has a greater focus on the destination rather than the journey, then...?

(I don't really know the answer to this one myself, just trying to clarify a slightly confusing answer... :?)
fun translation snippets | need something translated?
BTC@1KMZXgoWiDshQis5Z7feCx8jaiP4QAB2ks
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Re: "へと"?

Postby ss » Fri 02.18.2011 10:19 am

Chibola wrote:
Oh... okay... I think I understand! :think:


Sorry for the confusion, I think my first reply wasn't clear enough. How about this:

へと = 動きの方向 The direction you're moving towards

For example, when a fire broke out, everyone ran towards the nearest door, so
近くの出口へと向かった。

You're in a hurry catching a train, so you run quickly towards the station, so
駅へと走っていく 

へと has more uses, though. I see Nilecat san here. So, we'll wait for his explanation in details.
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Re: "へと"?

Postby NileCat » Fri 02.18.2011 11:49 am

Well… Shirley, do you really want me to butt in?
Sorry but, as always, I can’t make it simple and concise. Here are my three different answers for you.

Answer A:
Hyperworm’s definition is totally correct. With the particle ‘と’, you are to focus on the destination.

Answer B:
The function of the double-particle is to emphasize the speaker’s opinion or emotional feelings. It does not necessarily focus on the “destination” only. In that sense, Shirley, your gist is right. The speaker might have wanted to emphasize the direction, not the destination. (In your example of a fire, some people might not have reached the exit and that might have been what the speaker wanted to convey.)

Answer C:
Grammatically, you can separate the two particles like 森へ、と走る. Something like “羊たちは「森へ!」と走った”. In that sense, the double-particle could be assumed an “adverb-ish usage” even when it is rendered ‘へと’. Which means, logically speaking, here, “森” is not only a simple destination of your action “走る” but the “cause” or the “motivation” or the “purpose” or...something modifies the action...

…In order to get rid of this kind of confusion I’m making now, the simplest answer 'A' would be most plausible for many Japanese learners (including native speakers), I guess.
:)
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Re: "へと"?

Postby ss » Fri 02.18.2011 12:36 pm

Well… Shirley, do you really want me to butt in?


Nilecat san,
You're like our father and also a great teacher.
It's all been very sudden. What makes you think that I don't like you to get involved teaching me? Due to my long absence here? Or due to the reply I've just posted here? Am I that unreasonable and unapproachable?

I don't have any bad intention to scare away newbies. I think it's only reasonable when one wants to contradict others, it's better to back it up with examples or rational explanations, like what you did above. It truly helps and I can strongly feel the motivation around.

I just want to repeat after Chibola, I appreciate you taking the time to answer. :up:
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Re: "へと"?

Postby NileCat » Fri 02.18.2011 12:59 pm

Oh, no! Shirley, sorry for worrying you!
ss wrote:I don't have any bad intention to scare away newbies.

It was ME who was scared! :doh:
I know you and Hyperworm are both at native level. And, you know, I knew that it was an extremely difficult question to clarify without writing a pages-long thesis when it comes to answering to the native level non-native people. So I kind of hesitated at first. That’s all!

Anyway, did you get my explanation?
If you google the difference of the particles, you’d find some Q&As written in Japanese. And you’d find out that most of them are illogical and meaningless craps. I just didn’t want to add another crap on them. But I'm not sure if my explanation in English makes sense. :cry:


EDIT:
Maybe, I should have phrased it like this?
“Shirley, must I butt in?” :lol:
(or, You really want me to jump into fire?)
(or, Isn't there any possibility that I'm allowed to pretend I didn't notice your request?)
Maybe, you’re underestimating your skills.
Imagine that you are to answer to a grammar question on which two highly educated friends of yours are discussing, and they both seem correct, and you are expected to clear things up immediately, and you know that they wouldn’t be satisfied by a mediocre answer…
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Re: "へと"?

Postby Hyperworm » Fri 02.18.2011 3:07 pm

NileCat wrote:EDIT:
Maybe, I should have phrased it like this?
“Shirley, must I butt in?” :lol:
(or, You really want me to jump into fire?)
(or, Isn't there any possibility that I'm allowed to pretend I didn't notice your request?)
"Oh no, (do) I have to answer that? :D"
"How much(/badly) do you want to know? :D"

perhaps :)
fun translation snippets | need something translated?
BTC@1KMZXgoWiDshQis5Z7feCx8jaiP4QAB2ks
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Re: "へと"?

Postby chibola » Fri 02.18.2011 6:32 pm

I think I'll pick answer B. Answer A would be too simple, and I got lost in answer C :blush: .

Thank you very much for clarifying, everyone. Maybe someday I'll also be able to help someone with Japanese like you do... But not yet, I suppose. I have to work harder and improve first :)
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Re: "へと"?

Postby ss » Fri 02.18.2011 7:18 pm

Nilecat and Hyperworm,
Seriously, I appreciate your time and effort very very much.
Please don't worry about giving long reply, not everyone can do that, ya know ~

Nilecat wrote:
Anyway, did you get my explanation?


Yes, perfectly. Thank you for your explanation.

Hyperworm wrote

NileCat wrote:
EDIT:
Maybe, I should have phrased it like this?
A “Shirley, must I butt in?” :lol:
B (or, You really want me to jump into fire?)
C (or, Isn't there any possibility that I'm allowed to pretend I didn't notice your request?)


D "Oh no, (do) I have to answer that? :D"
E "How much(/badly) do you want to know? :D"

perhaps :)


A Yes, please
B Yes, please
C No, no, definitely no!
D Yes, please
E All

:P :bow:

Thanks to Chibola who started this thread, I agree with him/her, there is always room for improvement, I shall continue to work harder.
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