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~対象とし、...~目標としている

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~対象とし、...~目標としている

Postby Michael_SD » Mon 02.28.2011 2:18 pm

I am belatedly and gradually transitioning from intermediate Japanese to early advanced Japanese. Not only belatedly, but probably a bit inauspiciously, as there is a sentence right at the beginning of the Introduction of this next textbook I am starting in, which I am not sure I fully understand.

この教科書の対象レベルと目標
   本書は中級レベルるの日本語学習者を対象とし、その能力を上級レベルに引き上げることを目標としている

I know all the vocabulary, but とする is the problem, I think. I own a few dictionaries, among them Dictionary of Intermediate Japanese Grammar, which treats two instances of とする.

However, since とする is new to me, I wasn't completely sure if I am using the senses from DIJG correctly in my understanding of the sentence, which is, 'In this book we assume as its object the intermediate-level Japanese student, and our goal is raising that student's level to an advanced level.'

How close (if at all) is that to the original Japanese?
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Re: ~対象とし、...~目標としている

Postby NileCat » Mon 02.28.2011 3:00 pm

Sounds fine to me. :)
Let me try the same thing! And…could you tell me if it sounds weird in English? I am not really sure, especially about the proper use of the articles and singular/plural forms. :blush: Also, I'd like to know if my choice of the subject is inappropriate. :sweatdrop: Thank you!

This book is intended for intermediate-level learners of Japanese, and it aims at boosting their ability to an advanced level.
:pray:
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Re: ~対象とし、...~目標としている

Postby Hyperworm » Mon 02.28.2011 3:06 pm

Explaining とする is a little tricky, I wonder if I can get away without doing it <_<;

対象 = target, target audience, pitched at, deals (only) with, is applicable (only) to ...
「本書はXを対象とする」 = This book takes / treats / sets X as its target (audience) = This book is targeted at X
"This book is pitched at the intermediate-level Japanese student, and its goal is to bring that student's abilities up to the advanced level."

I don't think the "assume" use of とする is involved here, unless you interpret "assume" as in
"His face assumed(=took on) an angry expression" and not as in
"We assume(=accept to be true without evidence) that..."

NileCat wrote:This book is intended for intermediate-level learners of Japanese, and it aims at boosting their ability to an advanced level.
Seems perfect :)
At first I wasn't entirely sure about "aims at boosting" (maybe I'd have done "aims to boost"?), but similar things turn up a lot of Google searches so I think I'm picking at a problem that isn't there ^^;
fun translation snippets | need something translated?
BTC@1KMZXgoWiDshQis5Z7feCx8jaiP4QAB2ks
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Re: ~対象とし、...~目標としている

Postby NileCat » Mon 02.28.2011 3:14 pm

Thank you, Hyperworm! :) :)
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Re: ~対象とし、...~目標としている

Postby Michael_SD » Tue 03.01.2011 7:02 pm

NileCat wrote:Sounds fine to me. :)

It's good to hear such encouragement. I know translations/interpretations can often be worded a bit differently, as long as they convey the meaning of the original message. So, your response is welcome here. I had stagnated quite a while in learning Japanese, and have been on a learning plateau for quite a spell. Just recently I've decided to get restarted in earnest in learning the language again.
Let me try the same thing! And…could you tell me if it sounds weird in English? I am not really sure, especially about the proper use of the articles and singular/plural forms. :blush: Also, I'd like to know if my choice of the subject is inappropriate. :sweatdrop: Thank you!

This book is intended for intermediate-level learners of Japanese, and it aims at boosting their ability to an advanced level.
:pray:

Your sentence is perfectly understandable and grammatical. There is accurate concordance vis-a-vis singular and plural forms, articles, punctuation, and so forth. In particular, your correlation between "intermediate-level learners of Japanese" and "their ability" is fine. (For example, had you instead written, "for the intermediate-level learner of Japanese", "their ability" would change to "his or her ability".) So, you knew the correct agreement, and that's a good thing. One minor point I would want to make is that I think a better verb might be "raise" instead of "boost". But this is a question of style, not a question of semantics.

Your English, frankly, is better than the English I have seen from native speakers of English in other fora.
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Re: ~対象とし、...~目標としている

Postby Michael_SD » Tue 03.01.2011 7:35 pm

Hyperworm wrote:Explaining とする is a little tricky, I wonder if I can get away without doing it <_<;

対象 = target, target audience, pitched at, deals (only) with, is applicable (only) to ...
「本書はXを対象とする」 = This book takes / treats / sets X as its target (audience) = This book is targeted at X
"This book is pitched at the intermediate-level Japanese student, and its goal is to bring that student's abilities up to the advanced level."

I don't think the "assume" use of とする is involved here, unless you interpret "assume" as in
"His face assumed(=took on) an angry expression" and not as in
"We assume(=accept to be true without evidence) that..."

I see it. My sentence probably could have used a bit more finesse. But your expansion on とする helps a lot. I see this more clearly now.

Thanks.
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Re: ~対象とし、...~目標としている

Postby NileCat » Wed 03.02.2011 5:29 am

@Michael_SD,

Thank you very much for your really encouraging compliment! :bow:

There is just one thing that I suppose you might find it interesting. It’s an extremely microscopic and trivial thing. :D But I have an impression that you are the sort who always wants to understand, not only to know, things. Am I wrong? :) Now, are you ready for the wall of text?

This is about the quality of the original Japanese sentence you quoted.
I know it is cruel to criticize this kind of small print with an aesthetic conception as long as it is grammatically correct. However, if I were the editor of the book, I think I would order to rewrite it. The thing is about the validity of the use of the word “hikiageru”. I have to say it sounds gauche, because it could give an impression that this book is unreliable to its readers.
There are two reasons why it can end up giving us that impression.
1) It is technically impossible. Any single book cannot turn intermediate learners into advanced-level students by just reading and studying it unless it were a magic book. And if it claims it can seriously, the author is just pretentious.
2) The real subject is dubious in this sentence. As you see, it is just written according to a common format which you find in many books: “the target and its goal”. But apparently it can read as a message not to the students but to the teachers who are to use the book in their lessons. In that case, the one who is to raise the students’ ability is not the book but the teachers who use this book. And the word “hikiageru” would be fine here. But the subject is wrong. It must be phrased like the book “helps them” to raise the abilities of their students.

The followings are some examples which don’t have that kind of flaws in them.

a) “本書は、現代日本語と現代韓国語の対照研究について概説し、本格的な研究への手がかり を与えることを目的とする。”
b) “本書は、第二外国語48時間(週2×1年)程度の既習者を対象とし、初級での既習内容を確認しながら、語彙を増やし、読解力と表現力を養うことを目的とした、やさしい中級 教科書です。”
C) “本書は、大学学部学生を対象として、電磁波工学の基礎およびアンテナ、電波伝搬を理解 することを目的とし、加えて、実際の電波利用について解説した。”

The relations between the subjects and verbs are all rational here. And every sentence states its “goal” very clearly without giving us a suspicious impression.

But, please don’t take my post as an attack or something to your textbook. I just thought this kind of anal thing might be interesting to someone.

Anyway, now I suppose you understand why Hyperworm and I used a different sentence structure type from yours. :wink:
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Re: ~対象とし、...~目標としている

Postby Michael_SD » Sat 03.05.2011 3:33 pm

But I have an impression that you are the sort who always wants to understand, not only to know, things. Am I wrong?
You're right. It's a little strange, in a way, that how I wrote might cause that to show through, even filtered through the Internet and this forum. People in the past in real life have told me a time or two that I was a somewhat overly analytical about things. That was their opinion. I just like to see things at a deep level at times. With Japanese, that is the case. But it will be some time -- years, I'm certain -- before I will have the vocabulary and grammar ability to see the language at a very deep level.

The thing is about the validity of the use of the word “hikiageru”.
I like that you pointed this out, because although I did get a good grasp, I know, of intermediate Japanese grammar, as presented in the textbooks I studied, since I learn Japanese independently, I think there may be elaboration -- complementary information, classroom give-and-take, etc. -- that occurs in formal classroom settings that I don't get as a self-taught student. That is to say, students who are serious about learning Japanese, in formal classes, learn more than I do. So, how much I do apparently know may be misleading, at least as it may appear from what I write in forums such as these. I am really weak in vocabulary.
So, again, I am glad you pointed out that transitive verb, because it caused me to go back and check intransitive-transitive verb pairs that the authors of DIJG provide in an appendix to their work. As for agreement/concordance of transitive and intransitive verbs vis-a-vis their subjects, direct objects, and what have you, I'm still "out to lunch" at times when it comes to compound and complex sentences.
So why hikiageru sticks out to a native speaker or fluent speaker is still something I will not notice till some time (years) in the future. I look forward to the journey toward that level of comprehension. :)

But apparently it can read as a message not to the students but to the teachers who are to use the book in their lessons.
It is. Since I was somewhat clueless as to what ~とする meant, I didn't think to specify the target audience of the Introduction at the time. As you perceived, it is intended for the teacher.

I studied your example sentences. Understanding them was a real workout, but that was a good thing. I'm of the school that says to really learn a language (or anything, for that matter), you have to use it practically, i.e., hands-on. Working with your sentences was excellent, because I learned more vocabulary, especially, something I now realize I am weak in, in doing so.

As always, I appreciate your enlightenment. It's a good thing to have you in this forum.
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