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What is a petraphone?

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What is a petraphone?

Postby chikara » Tue 03.08.2011 12:30 am

I was looking at the etymology of the kanji 段 on chineseetymology.org. It is a hand with mallet 殳 hitting a section of a petraphone.

I have no idea what a petraphone is other than maybe a musical instrument made from rocks. :think:

My Google Jutsu has let me down and all I can find are the phone numbers for many girls called Petra. :blush:

So, just what is a petraphone?
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Re: What is a petraphone?

Postby tōkai devotee » Tue 03.08.2011 2:54 am

chikara wrote:
So, just what is a petraphone?



It sounds like a very scared electronic device for the transmission of sound or voice :wink:
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Re: What is a petraphone?

Postby chikara » Tue 03.08.2011 3:29 am

I was responding to Nile-cat-san's response when it vanished. :ninja:

Spooky. :mrgreen:
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Re: What is a petraphone?

Postby NileCat » Tue 03.08.2011 3:45 am

I have never heard of it too.
But if it is a musical instrument, it might be a combination of “petro” and “phone”, like you supposed.
petro = rock (e.g) petroleum
phone = keyboard (e.g) xylophone (“xylo-“ is “wood” in ancient Greek)
And an old Chinese musical instrument made of stone seems to be called “bianqing”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bianqing
There is a photo on this page. It looks like the petraphone-ish to me. 8)
But I’d bet only 10-yen coin on this. :mrgreen:

EDIT: chikara-san, I was looking for this picture :D
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Re: What is a petraphone?

Postby chikara » Tue 03.08.2011 4:01 am

NileCat wrote:I have never heard of it too.
But if it is a musical instrument, it might be a combination of “petro” and “phone”, like you supposed.
petro = rock (e.g) petroleum
phone = keyboard (e.g) xylophone (“xylo-“ is “wood” in ancient Greek)
And an old Chinese musical instrument made of stone seems to be called “bianqing”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bianqing
There is a photo on this page.
But I’d bet only 10-yen coin on this. :mrgreen:

EDIT: chikara-san, I was looking for this picture :D

So my guess of a musical instrument made from rocks was correct. やった :dance:

I had never seen anything like that before but it certainly fits the bill. You are very knowledgeable Nile-cat-san.

ありがとうございます :bow:
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Re: What is a petraphone?

Postby NileCat » Tue 03.08.2011 4:07 am

But we might be totally wrong. :D
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Re: What is a petraphone?

Postby tōkai devotee » Tue 03.08.2011 4:24 am

NileCat wrote:But we might be totally wrong. :D



I'd say I might definitely be completely wrong :D
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Re: What is a petraphone?

Postby chikara » Tue 03.08.2011 4:29 am

NileCat wrote:But we might be totally wrong. :D

Worth a 10 yen bet though. :)

tōkai devotee wrote:I'd say I might definitely be completely wrong :D

I'd be petrified if you were correct. :P
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Re: What is a petraphone?

Postby ss » Tue 03.08.2011 4:30 am

This word 段 is made up of 殳( shū) radical.
殳 is an ancient weapon, please take a look at this picture.
It's like your hand is holding a weapon (殳) and you keep hitting on a rock, thus it produces sound. And, when you hit the object hard enough, it will also break into pieces or parts.

I have never heard of petraphone as well.
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Re: What is a petraphone?

Postby chikara » Tue 03.08.2011 4:45 am

SS-san, thank you for that additional information. :bow:
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Re: What is a petraphone?

Postby ss » Wed 03.09.2011 4:58 am

As we all know, China is one of the world's most ancient civilizations with a recorded history of more than 5000 years. Many people think that Yellow River Civilization (which also known as Shang Dynasty) was the earliest civilization in ancient China. In fact, there was a record of a group of villages existed in North China around 3000 B.C.. They were known as Yangshao. The Yangshao people hunted with bows and arrows,used tools made of stone and bone, and moulded pots by hand.

Gradually, another group of villages called the Longshan appeared. The Longshan people were more advanced than the Yangshao. They lived in walled communities, grew rice and millet, and raised cattle, sheep and pigs. They made fine pottery by using an ancient machine called "spinning potters' wheel". The Longshan are best remembered for their polished black pottery.

So, some historians believed that before the Shang Dynasty, there were ancient folks who had already learned the skill of smelting. During the Shang Dynasty, tremendous amount of work had further developed. One of the significant features of the Shang Dynasty was, using the most advanced technology at that time, Shang craftsmen produced intricate bronze objects like weapons, wine cups and jars. The Shang Dynasty had many talented and skilled craftsmen. From books, you can see some artists' impressions of the houses built during the Shang Dynasty, were made of pounded earth.

During ancient time, there wasn't any advance machinery or heavy equipment like we see today. Hence, one of the many etymologies about the word 段 was --- ancient people used to carry a small weapon with them, they used the weapon to cut and clear path, to collect materials or plough field. The 字形 signifies someone hit on the objects hard many times, in a way that also made a lot of noice.

There is a full load of etymology of 段 here. :sweatdrop:

Spoiler:
解形
說文》:「段,椎物也。人人殳,耑省聲。”徐灝注箋:“段、鍛,古今字引申之,則為分段。”朱芳圃《殷周文字釋叢》:“按:金文‘段’象手持椎於厂中捶石之形。許君訓‘椎物’,引申之義也。云耑省聲’,誤象形為形聲矣。」

釋義
1)錘擊,錘煉。後作「鍛」。《說文‧殳部》:「段,椎物也。”段玉裁注:用椎曰椎。《考工記》‘段氏為鎛器’,鎛欲其段之堅,故官曰段氏。《函人職》曰:‘凡甲鍛不摰則不堅,鍛亦當作段。’《金部》曰:鍛,小冶也。’小冶,小鑄之穴士黽也。後人以鍛為段字,以段為分段字。”《禮記‧曲禮下》“天子之六工,曰土工、金工、石工木工、獸工、草工”漢鄭玄注:“金工。築、冶、鳧、栗、段、桃也。”孔穎達疏:“段氏主作錢鎛、田器。」

(2)特指古時於石捶治乾肉(並施加薑桂)。後作「腶」。清桂馥《說文解字義證》:「(段)又作腶字。《哀十一年左傳》腶脯,戴侗曰:腶,捶脯也。古單作段。《記》曰:‘棗、栗、段脩。’康成曰:‘捶脯,加薑桂也。’段必捶之於石故因以得名。後人加肉。”《禮記‧昏義》:“婦執笲棗、栗段脩以見。”陸德明釋文:“段,本又作腶,或作鍛,同。脩脯也。加薑桂曰腶脩。」

(3)我國特產的一種質地厚實而有光澤的絲織品。後作「緞」。宋周密《武林舊事‧乾淳奉親》:「上(宋孝宗)於閣子庫取賜五兩數珠子一號、細色北段各十匹。”明余繼登《典故紀聞》卷十一:“洪武、永樂間各處府縣歲貢綵段,工部驗中,方送內庫。」

(4)通「斷」。截斷;分開。清朱駿聲《說文通訓定聲‧乾部》:「段,借為斷。”《釋名‧釋言語》:“斷,段也。分為異段也。”《廣韻‧換韻》:“段,分段也。”清段玉裁《說文解字注‧殳部》:“分段字自應作斷,蓋古今字之不同如此。”《銀雀山漢墓竹簡‧孫子兵法‧擒厂龍涓》:“于是段齊城、高唐為兩,直將蟻附平陵。」

(5)鳥卵孵不出。後作「毈」。《管子‧五行》:「然則羽卵者不段,毛胎者不月賣,月黽婦不銷棄。”郭沫若等集校引洪頤火宣曰:“段,讀作毈。《說文》:‘毈,卵不孚也。’《淮南‧原道訓》:‘獸胎不贕,鳥卵不毈。’高誘注:‘胎不成獸曰贕,卵不成鳥曰毈。’段即毈字之省。」

(6)量詞。1.布帛或條形物的一截。《正字通‧殳部》:「帛二曰緉,分而未曰匹,既曰段。”《晉書‧鄧嶽傳附鄧遐》:“遐揮劍截蛟數段而去。”《新唐書‧房玄齡傳》:“給班劍、羽葆、鼓吹,絹布二千段,粟二千斛。”元楊梓《豫讓吞炭》第一折:“折末尸骸橫百段,熱血污黃塵。”2.表示一定距離。數詞多用一。如:一段時間;一段路;坐了一段火車,《宋書‧后妃傳‧明恭王皇后》:“后在家為儜弱婦人,不知今段遂能剛正如此。”3.表示事物的一部分。如:一段話;兩段文章;一段京戲。《南史‧儒林傳‧嚴植之》:“講說有區段次第,析理分明。”《老殘遊記》第二回:“先形容那黑驢怎樣怎樣好法,待鋪余又到美人的好處,不過數語,這段書也就完了。”魯迅《且介亭雜文‧病後雜談之餘》:“這一段結語,有兩事使我吃驚。”用於某些曲藝演出,可以是完整的節目。如:聽了兩段相聲一段評書。4.表示行動的次、回,或事物的件、種。《隋書‧南蠻傳‧赤土》:“齎物五千段,以賜赤土王。”《紅樓夢》第五回:“如爾則天分中生成一段癡情,吾輩推之為‘意淫’。」

(7)指身段或體段。《正字通‧殳部》:「段,體段,”金董解元《西廂記諸宮調》卷七:“不稔色,村沙段。”凌景埏注:“村沙,傖俗,醜惡。村沙段,指身材相貌極為醜陋。”《紅樓夢》第四回:“當日這英蓮,我們天天哄他玩耍,極相熟的,所以隔了七八年,雖模樣兒出脫的齊整,然大段未改,所以認得。」

(8)地質學名詞。小於組的地方性地層劃分的單位,多以地理名稱來命名。如:灣灣溝段;台山段等。也可不用地理名稱命名。

(9)圍棋棋手等級的名稱。根據棋手們棋藝的不同程度,余又定“段”的位次,從初段遞進,以至九段。如:國家圍棋隊總教練、中國九段棋手聶衛平。

(10)通“碫”。椎物所墊之石。《墨子‧經說下》:「段、椎、錐俱事於屨可用也。”高亨校詮:“段,借為碫。蓋碫者椎物所墊之石也。」

(11)通“緞”。縫帖於鞋跟的革片、絲條之屬。漢張衡《四愁詩四首》之四:「美人贈我錦繡段,何以報之青玉案。”桂馥札樸:“古詩‘美人贈我錦繡段’,段當為韋段。《說文》:‘韋段,履後帖也。或人人糸。’徐鍇繫傳云:‘帖,後跟也。’」

(12)姓。《廣韻‧換韻》:「段,姓,出武威,本自鄭共叔段之後,《風俗通》云段干木之後。段氏有出遼西者,本鮮卑檀石槐之後,晉將段匹磾。」


My father and I had a good time discussing this, above is our understanding of the word 段. Like what my dad said, Mr. Richard Sears had spent 20 years of effort to study the Chinese character etymologies, he must have kept lots of useful resources with him. We were actually quite prompted to write to him asking the connection with Petraphone.

Muahaha, my father added 100-yen to Nilecat's bid. It sounded logical!! :) :dance:
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Re: What is a petraphone?

Postby NileCat » Wed 03.09.2011 6:30 am

That is a very inspiring post, and I really enjoyed reading it.
Thank you for the great explanation, Shirley. And special thanks to your Dad!
Also, I'm glad to know that my 10 yen was not lost!
:)
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Re: What is a petraphone?

Postby ss » Thu 03.10.2011 9:21 pm

Nilecatさん、こちらこそ、いろいろとどうもありがとう!  :)
気にかけてくれてNilecatさんは親切ですね~
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