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How to read "2 ~ 5"

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How to read "2 ~ 5"

Postby Kurious » Sun 05.08.2011 2:55 pm

Hello!

I've seen this format a few times "number tilde number", such as "2 ~ 5" for example. I know some examples appear in my Basic Kanji Book, I don't know if I've seen something like that elsewhere.

An example from the BKB: 「上の1.~10.の中から選びなさい。」

I used to read the "1~10" above as "ichi kara juu made" but then I found something like "1~10 kara" as part of a sentence. (Sorry, I can't find it now... Image)

What's the proper way to pronounce it? Thank you.
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Re: How to read "2 ~ 5"

Postby blutorange » Tue 05.10.2011 1:24 pm

Japanese Wikipedia wrote:日本語では、波ダッシュを「から」と読む。「……から……まで」のように、波ダッシュの後ろの語に「まで」を付けて読むこともある。

「波ダッシュ」=「~」
http://ja.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=%E6%B3%A2%E3%83%80%E3%83%83%E3%82%B7%E3%83%A5&oldid=37384208
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Re: How to read "2 ~ 5"

Postby LordOfTheFlies » Tue 05.10.2011 9:31 pm

What blutorange said is that you say 「xからyまで」 for x ~ y

blutorange wrote:
Japanese Wikipedia wrote:日本語では、波ダッシュを「から」と読む。「……から……まで」のように、波ダッシュの後ろの語に「まで」を付けて読むこともある。

「波ダッシュ」=「~」
http://ja.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=%E6%B3%A2%E3%83%80%E3%83%83%E3%82%B7%E3%83%A5&oldid=37384208

これは初心者に対するもっともふさわしい教え方だと思うんですか。言葉はたぶんまったく通じません。
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Re: How to read "2 ~ 5"

Postby furrykef » Wed 05.11.2011 12:20 am

That doesn't answer how to read "1~10 kara", though. I'm guessing "ichi kara juu made kara".
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Re: How to read "2 ~ 5"

Postby Kurious » Thu 05.12.2011 12:30 am

I did understand all that Japanese! Nice! :) I did have to look up a few words in the dictionary though.

Interesting to know that 「~」 is pronounced as 「波ダッシュ」 ("namidash"). In roumaji: namidasshu.

I did pronounce 1~10 as "ichi kara juu made", it's good to know I got that one right. Also, I did pronounce "1~10 kara" as "ichi kara juu made kara". However, does this pronunciation sound like proper Japanese? Perhaps let me rephrase the question: In which other way would you convey the idea of "from 1~10"?

Thanks for all the replies.
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Re: How to read "2 ~ 5"

Postby blutorange » Thu 05.12.2011 1:37 am

Kurious wrote:Also, I did pronounce "1~10 kara" as "ichi kara juu made kara". However, does this pronunciation sound like proper Japanese?

No. Adding another から after まで, that does not sound like good Japanese. I am also not certain why you would want to add another から, meaning wise, you already have a "from" and "to"? Moreover, ~ can just be read as から without adding まで at the end (see th first part of the quoted sentence). Let me also quote a few usage example from the net:
http://d.hatena.ne.jp/lemniscus/20100301/1267447704 wrote:1から9を順番に使って数を作る
2010 = 1 + 2 + 3×(4×(5+6)×(7+8)+9)
と書いてある。去年は、
Did you know that 2009 is (1/2+3)*(4+5*(6*7+8*9))?
とあった。

Wikipedia article about Sudoku:
http://ja.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=%E6%95%B0%E7%8B%AC&oldid=36794159 wrote:任意の9マス
9×9の問題の81マスの内、9マスのみ色分けなどによって限定し、その9マスには1から9の数字が一つずつ入るように制限を設ける問題。

And from a somewhat more official source, also about Sudoku:
http://www.sakabe.nuie.nagoya-u.ac.jp/~sakai/lecture/non-proc-lang/slide-prj-handout.pdf wrote:9 × 9 のマスの空欄に制約を満たす 1 から 9 を入れる
- それぞれの縦、横、ブロックには同じ数字を入れない


これは初心者に対するもっともふさわしい教え方だと思うんですか

初心者だからこそ、教科書での日本語じゃなく、本物で勉強することは、できれば、最も楽しく有効的な方法だと私は思います。そして実際の母語話者で書かれているテキストが分かったら→大喜び・いい気分
Last edited by blutorange on Thu 05.12.2011 10:45 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: How to read "2 ~ 5"

Postby furrykef » Thu 05.12.2011 8:38 am

blutorange wrote:I am also not certain why you would want to add another から, meaning wise, you already have a "from" and "to"?

"OK, class, let's start from items one through ten."

"One through ten" would have one "kara" in it, and the second "kara" would be the "from" in "from one through ten".

At least, this is what I had in mind when Kurious said "but then I found something like '1~10 kara' as part of a sentence." Whether people actually talk this way and whether Kurious heard or read what he thought may be a different matter, though. ;)
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Re: How to read "2 ~ 5"

Postby blutorange » Thu 05.12.2011 11:09 am

furrykef wrote:"OK, class, let's start from items one through ten."
"One through ten" would have one "kara" in it, and the second "kara" would be the "from" in "from one through ten".

I see, I did not think of that. Well, googling for までから does not give much usage examples, but enough to conclude that this would be acceptable in Japanese. Considering this is of the pattern 「甲から始める」, where 甲 could be anything and just happens to be 「1から10まで(の問題)」 here, I think it makes sense. 「『1から10まで(の問題)』から始めましょう」. And of course, one could just enough rephrase 「1から10で始めましょう」; I could imagine it might be possible that 「までから」 sounds clumsy to native speakers.

http://nokonokoya.blog109.fc2.com/blog-date-201009-1.html wrote:[…]マリオブラザーズからマリオギャラクシー2までから選び抜かれた音楽の収録されたサウンドトラック、[…]

(Emphasis added by me.)
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Re: How to read "2 ~ 5"

Postby Kurious » Thu 05.12.2011 8:02 pm

I did read 「1~10から」 in one of my books. When I say "something like", I refer to the fact that I don't remember the numbers exactly. So it could have been 「2~5から」 or 「7~20から」 for example. However, it was something along the lines of 「x~yから」 where x and y are numbers. In any case, I was trying to find the actual sentence today, but couldn't. I'll search again later.

Thanks for finding an example where the 「までから」 sequence is valid. Also, I like the idea of reading things like these by using something like 「1から10で」 and I will definitely keep that one in mind.

ありがとうございます
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