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My Questions Thread

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My Questions Thread

Postby MeitanteiJesus » Fri 05.20.2011 11:36 pm

I don't want to spam topics so I'll just keep asking them in one place lol.

何とかして外へ‐‐‐人口の方へ → jinkou no hou e

Context: Persona A is fighting Person B. They are in a secluded dimension with no other people、fighting inside a deserted building. Persona A thinks to retreat and run outside - jinkou no hou e.

At first I thought it meant towards other people, but if there are no other people, what is the appropriate translation?

Also: かいくぐて, I know kuguru = to evade/dodge, but what's the かい part mean? I considered it might be "to forcefully pass through", but from the image Persona A looks like he's dodging.
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Re: My Questions Thread

Postby becki_kanou » Sat 05.21.2011 5:03 am

Is it possible that you mis-read 入口(いりぐち) as 人口 (じんこう) ? Towards the entrance sounds much more likely than towards the population and the two kanji are quite similar.

For the second example can you provide a little more context in the form of the surrounding dialogue?
そうだ、嬉しいんだ、生きる喜び!
例え胸の傷が痛んでも。
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Re: My Questions Thread

Postby MeitanteiJesus » Sat 05.21.2011 3:22 pm

Ah that is my likely the case for the first example, as the image is a bit blurry.

For the second one, surrounding text:

ギリギリまで攻撃を引きつけ
かいくぐって‐‐脇を抜ける!!

Translation attempt: I'll hold on until the last moment, dodge his attack, and escape to the side!!
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Re: My Questions Thread

Postby Hyperworm » Sat 05.21.2011 4:39 pm

Kenkyusha J-E 5th Ed [GG]:
かいくぐる【掻い潜る】
slip through; slip away; (try to) avoid being caught.
犯人は捜査網をかいくぐって逃走した模様だ
It appears that the perpetrator slipped past the dragnet and got away.

Daijirin:
かいくぐ・る4 【▼掻い▽潜る】
「くぐる」を強めていう語。
An emphasized version of くぐる.

かい 【▼掻い】
(接頭) 〔補説〕 「かき」の転
動詞に付いて語勢を強め、また語調を整える。
(prefix) [info] derived from 「かき」
Attached to a verb, adds emphasis and improves the tone.

Leaves a stronger impression (often adding power to the doing of the verb) and sounds more impressive sometimes :)
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Re: My Questions Thread

Postby MeitanteiJesus » Tue 06.14.2011 1:22 am

俺はな!!お前に学年一位とか都大会優勝とかそんあことこれっぽちも求めちゃいないんだ!!俺はただお前がお前のままでいることを望んでたんだよ!!あいつに過去ばかり見せてるのは。。。昔に戻りたいって思わせてるのはオレたちの中で唯一人変わってしまった。。。お前だ!!

Not quite sure how to translate this.

Attempt: ore ha na !! omae ni gakunen ichi (kurai?) toka to taikai yuushou toka sonna koto koreppochi mo motome cha inainda !! ore ha tada omae ga omae no mama de iru koto o nozon de tanda yo !! aitsu ni kako bakari miseteru no ha . . . mukashi ni modori taitte omo waseteru no ha oretachi no naka de tada hitori kawatte shimatta . . . omae da !!

EN: You know, I (something about other guy, first grade, and winning a competition, not wanting any of them)!! I just want you as you are now to be here!! To keep showing that guy the past... the feeling of wanting to return the past, the only one who has forgotten...is you!!

Yeah, reading what I typed gave me a headache too, lol :(
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Re: My Questions Thread

Postby NileCat » Tue 06.14.2011 9:27 am

These sentence structures would look tricky.
Let me break down each sentence into pieces for you.

私は、求めていない。
・あなたが、学年で1番になること
・あなたが、地区(東京都)の大会で優勝すること

私は、望んでいた。
・あなたが、あなたのままでいること(変わらないこと)

彼(彼女)に対して、
・過去だけを見せている
・「昔に戻りたい」と思わせている

 それは、あなたである
  ・あなたは、変わってしまった
  ・変わってしまったのは、あなただけ
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Re: My Questions Thread

Postby Hyperworm » Tue 06.14.2011 9:43 am

俺はな!!お前に学年一位とか都大会優勝とかそんなことこれっぽちも求めちゃいないんだ!!俺はただお前がお前のままでいることを望んでたんだよ!!あいつに過去ばかり見せてるのは。。。昔に戻りたいって思わせてるのはオレたちの中で唯一人変わってしまった。。。お前だ!!

Your romanization uses strange spacing in places. I'll clarify those in case you're not familiar with the conjugations being used.
motome cha = motomete wa [te form + wa; cha=tewa contraction]
nozon de tanda = nozonde (i)ta nda [te form + ita(iru past tense) + n(o)da]
modori taitte = modoritai tte ≈ modoritai to [tai form (wanting to do) of modoru + to/tte quoting particle]
omo waseteru = omowasete (i)ru [causative form of omou + te form + (i)ru]
(Look up causative if you don't know it. ^^)

The blue parts go together. お前に【・・・】求めてはいないんだ = "I'm not seeking/looking for [・・・] from you".
学年一位 : 学年(gakunen)一位(ichii).
お前がお前のままでいること : This means "you to be/stay/exist(いる) as you are". It doesn't refer to position/place.
The green parts also go together. After the first のは, the sentence is 'restarted' with a different statement, for emphasis. Both のはs apply to what comes after.
The last part can be read either 「ただひとりかわってしまった」 or 「ゆいいつひと(が)かわってしまった」 with slightly different meanings. 「人が変わる」 means "personality changes".

With that and NileCat's sentence simplifications you should have enough to translate it now? :)
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Re: My Questions Thread

Postby MeitanteiJesus » Tue 06.14.2011 4:25 pm

Thanks! Here’s my attempt with the assistance from you two incorporated:

俺はな!!
I

お前に学年一位とか都大会優勝とかそんなことこれっぽちも求めちゃいないんだ!!
Don’t care about you being first in our grade or winning the (District? Municipal?) tournament!!

俺はただお前がお前のままでいることを望んでたんだよ!!
I just wanted you to stay as you were!!

あいつに過去ばかり見せてるのは。。。昔に戻りたいって思わせてるのはオレたちの中で唯一人変わってしまった。。。お前だ!!
Showing him/her the past… (Don’t think I got that right) and the desire to return to the way things were, the only one of us that has changed…is you!!
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Re: My Questions Thread

Postby NileCat » Wed 06.15.2011 1:29 pm

Good job, MeitanteiJesus! :)
JFYI, “~に過去ばかり見せてる” is not a common expression. The true meaning is unclear without the context. But the word ばかり is kind of important here. I’m not sure about the English nuance but it sounds like “All you are doing is just to remind her of the past!”

“昔に戻りたいって思わせてる”
Did you get the sentence structure? It’s a causative construction.
The plain sentence is:
あなたは、彼女に、昔に戻りたいと、思わせる。(simple present)
Ok? (You / make / her / want / to go back to the old days.)

The one who are still trying to show her only the things used to be and keeps making her want to go back to her old days is the man who only has been changed among us…It’s you!
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Re: My Questions Thread

Postby MeitanteiJesus » Thu 06.23.2011 2:50 pm

Thanks for the help so far everyone!

This time:

JP: 君がそんなだから...僕もあいつも
ドロの沼に嵌まってまま抜け出せないんだ...

EN: 君がそんなだから... --- Because you're like that...
僕もあいつも Him/her and I
ドロの沼に --- Mud Bog? Is this a metaphor for something else? [The image doesn't seem to show any sort of sinkhole]
嵌まってまま --- Sink in or Stuck in?
抜け出せないんだ... --- Can't get out...

Attempt: Because you're like that, her and I, are stuck in this <<ドロの沼>> and can't get out...

Also, what do black bullet-like dots represent when used to the right of kana/kanji?

For example, read right to left:

ボ・本
ス・命
討・の
伐・

And since i'm here, does that read "Hunting the true boss"
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Re: My Questions Thread

Postby NileCat » Fri 06.24.2011 1:53 am

Your gist is totally correct.
That metaphor is commonly used to express the situation where you have bogged down. You are mired in some uncomfortable situation and can’t get out. The more you stir in it, the more you sink.

The dots alongside the word are usually called 傍点 (ぼうてん). It usually emphasizes the word like the italic face does in English.

本命 was originally used to describe a prospective winner in a race. Today, it means:
1. top contender
2. strong favorite
3. main target (←)


EDIT:
There is a typo in your sentence.
It has to be 嵌まっまま, not 嵌まっまま.
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Re: My Questions Thread

Postby MeitanteiJesus » Sat 06.25.2011 12:04 am

Thanks for the clarification as always!

Next up:

強さというのは
Strength is
結果としての勝利を差す言葉じゃないよ
Not a word that is just about winning
抗うこと。。。倒れてもなお空を見続けること。。。!!
To resist... even If I fall, to continue looking up...!!

I'm guessing at the meaning, and I was wondering how this is read grammatically. Specifically the phrase: 結果としての勝利を差す

Results としての Winning を Bring about

Not sure how to interpret the としての and piecing the sentence together. Is it kind of like "For/As"? Ex: (For the) Result (of) Bringing Victory

Also, not quite sure what the なお in 倒れてもなお空を is grammatically.
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Re: My Questions Thread

Postby micahcowan » Sat 06.25.2011 3:25 am

MeitanteiJesus wrote: 強さというのは
Strength is
結果としての勝利を差す言葉じゃないよ
Not a word that is just about winning
抗うこと。。。倒れてもなお空を見続けること。。。!!
To resist... even If I fall, to continue looking up...!!


Seems like a fairly reasonable translation to me.

Results としての Winning を Bring about

Not sure how to interpret the としての and piecing the sentence together. Is it kind of like "For/As"? Ex: (For the) Result (of) Bringing Victory


This の is not the possessive の like 私の本 (and if it were, the translation would have to be more like "bringing the victory of the result", which as you can see makes little sense). It's a form of the copula (だ / です), the same form that is found in a phrase like 友達のブラウンさん, "my friend Mr Brown". It's how です looks when it's modifying a noun, the same way that 差す is how 差します looks when it's modifying 言葉 (to oversimplify things a bit).

So you could perhaps say that the overall clause (up to the 差す) is 勝利をさす, and that 勝利 is further modified in a clause whose meaning matches the sentence 勝利は結果としてです, except that this is a terribly weird sentence to occur by itself, I think. Anyway, so the overall meaning is something more like "not a word that expresses the idea of victory as the result [as the result of strength, that is]" (in this context, 差す means "to express a feeling of").

Also, not quite sure what the なお in 倒れてもなお空を is grammatically.


なお (adv,conj) (uk) furthermore; still; yet; more; still more;greater;further;less

It's the idea of, even when one falls, to gaze all the more steadfastly at the sky.
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