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Does this make sense?

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Does this make sense?

Postby Cyborg Ninja » Wed 06.15.2011 10:32 pm

「日本語の本のための勉強することは、三十ぐらいがあります。」

I want to say, "I have about 30 books for studying Japanese." It looks like a pretty ugly sentence I made there. Maybe I should say instead, 「勉強するのために、日本語の本が三十ぐらいがあります。」

By the way, does the 点 come before or after the closing parenthesis?
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Re: Does this make sense?

Postby blutorange » Thu 06.16.2011 2:22 am

Cyborg Ninja wrote:「日本語の本のための勉強することは、三十ぐらいがあります。」
I want to say, "I have about 30 books for studying Japanese." It looks like a pretty ugly sentence I made there.

Well, it is quite a funny sentence. The construction "AのためのB" means "B is for the sake of A". こと is a nominalizer and using it with は, your making a comment about 〜こと, not about 本. Finally, specifying quantities in Japanese should use a counter: 冊.
With that said, the above sentence literally translates to:
"As for the act of studying for the sake of Japanese books, thirty something exist."
Cyborg Ninja wrote:Maybe I should say instead, 「勉強するのために、日本語の本が三十ぐらいがあります。」

Much better, this has the intended meaning, but there are a few things to correct: The の between 勉強する and ため is not needed. Do you want "Japanese books for studying" or "Books for Stuyding Japanese"; above sentence is saying the former, but I think the latter is better. Lastly, we need to use counter:
日本語を勉強する(ため)に、三十冊ぐらいの本があります。
As indicated, you can leave out the ため and the sentence is still alright - using only に to indicate "for" is more general "for", not a "for the sake of", and makes the sentence sound a bit more casual.

Cyborg Ninja wrote:By the way, does the 点 come before or after the closing parenthesis?

As in English, first the dot, then the closing parenthesis or quoting marker.
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Re: Does this make sense?

Postby Cyborg Ninja » Thu 06.16.2011 3:50 pm

That was a big help, thank you. I really need to work on counters - I totally forget to use them. I will work on more natural sentence construction, too.

By the way, I'm impressed you know that the period goes before the closing quotation mark in English. Not even many native English speakers know that.
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Re: Does this make sense?

Postby Hyperworm » Thu 06.16.2011 5:16 pm

Cyborg Ninja wrote:By the way, I'm impressed you know that the period goes before the closing quotation mark in English. Not even many native English speakers know that.
You should read this article.

I've seen it done both ways in Japanese, too, and personally got the impression that "outside the quotes" is more common, but I could be wrong. :)
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Re: Does this make sense?

Postby blutorange » Thu 06.16.2011 5:29 pm

Let me quote my opinion:
"When quoting a sentence, everything goes between the quotation marks, such as the openers Japanese sentence."

However, when quoting some instance within a sentence, then the hierarchy becomes sentence first, quote last. So, by that I mean "this". What's quoted goes between those marks.
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Re: Does this make sense?

Postby furrykef » Mon 06.20.2011 4:59 am

My usual convention is "logical" quotation for straight quote marks and the conventional American quotation for curly quote marks. In other words, it depends on the typesetting.

People who insist that one style or the other is "correct" and the other isn't, though, need to learn that style != correctness. ;)

Getting back on topic, Blutorange's sentence is exactly what I would have said too.
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