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終り

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終り

Postby ddog892 » Thu 06.16.2011 4:58 pm

I've come across a problem that has got me in a pickle. :think:

I've found that their seems to be two forms of 終り. The other one being
Spoiler:
Image
. Which ones right or are both alright? Hmmmm. Thanks in advance.
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Re: 終り

Postby Hyperworm » Thu 06.16.2011 5:28 pm

Are you using Google Chrome as your web browser?
(Question more relevant than it seems)
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Re: 終り

Postby blutorange » Thu 06.16.2011 6:32 pm

The kanji in the picture you gave is definitely the commonly used form of 終り today. The real question is, what "other form" do you mean? As Hyperworm pointed out, you may be experiencing technical problems with rendering Japanese correctly, as the kanji is correctly encoded (UTF8 etc.). Can you show us a picture of that other form?
Also, http://www.kanjinetworks.com/eng/kanji-dictionary/online-kanji-etymology-dictionary.cfm?kanji_id=TONG10 displays a picture of a formerly used version of that kanji. And there is also the simplified-Chinese version, which looks like 终.
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Re: 終り

Postby phreadom » Thu 06.16.2011 7:25 pm

http://code.google.com/p/chromium/issues/detail?id=7160

http://code.google.com/p/chromium-os/is ... l?id=11699

It's a known problem with the webkit back-end apparently. So I'm guessing that both Chrome and Safari based browsers would experience this problem? (EDIT: Also, I just checked in Safari 5.0.5 and it worked correctly, so this is apparently just a Chrome issue, and not both.)

The problem being that you're actually seeing the kanji displayed using a Chinese font, which can look different and use a different stroke order than the Japanese version of the same kanji.

I've confirmed the problem you're seeing in my Chrome browser here. This is definitely what's happening.

Here is what it looks like in Firefox:
firefox2.png
firefox2.png (5.31 KiB) Viewed 3717 times


And here it what it looks like in Chrome:
chrome1.png
chrome1.png (3.65 KiB) Viewed 3717 times
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Re: 終り

Postby Hyperworm » Thu 06.16.2011 8:00 pm

The top link posted by phreadom was closed a while back as a duplicate, so I think the one you want to be starring to hopefully bring more attention to this problem is
http://code.google.com/p/chromium/issues/detail?id=2685

Wish they'd fix it already :(
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Re: 終り

Postby phreadom » Thu 06.16.2011 8:36 pm

I just went ahead and starred it and left a comment. It's one of 2 bugs that really shy me away from Chrome.

The other one is related to Rikaikun not working in text input boxes (like the very one I'm typing this in) because of a lack of functionality in webkit.

http://code.google.com/p/rikaikun/issues/detail?id=16

Chrome really is fast and sleek... but some of the key plugins I use, and some totally basic things like font support are just fundamentally broken or unavailable on Chrome still. :( If they'd resolve some of those issues I might start using Chrome more often again.

(I also hate the way Chrome manages bookmarks (ie; not at all basically) ;) hehe)

Enough griping from me. :mrgreen:
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Re: 終り

Postby furrykef » Mon 06.20.2011 5:01 am

It's not a bug in Chrome unless the page specifies what language the kanji are in and Chrome is ignoring it. Otherwise it has no way of knowing whether it should use the Japanese style or the Chinese style.
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Re: 終り

Postby Hyperworm » Mon 06.20.2011 6:30 am

furrykef wrote:It's not a bug in Chrome unless the page specifies what language the kanji are in and Chrome is ignoring it.
This does describe the problem (though not for this page). :)
When coding my site I made sure to mark up all the Japanese with lang="ja", but Chrome refused to put it in the right font without a separate CSS font-family rule.

On other sites it also ignores encoding (Shift-JIS) and domain (.jp), defaulting to always using a Chinese font. ._.
The presence of hiragana and katakana could also be a clue in the absence of a lang attribute.

In any event, I'm not sure how other browsers seem to make the right guess when language markup isn't present (this page as an example), but they do it somehow... <_<;
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Re: 終り

Postby phreadom » Mon 06.20.2011 7:58 am

Mattias offered a "solution" to this problem that appears to work!

In your Chrome settings, change the sans serif font to something like Meiryo and the encoding to "Unicode (UTF-8)" and your Japanese fonts should show up correctly again! They look slightly different than they might otherwise, but at least you're seeing the right characters.

(Options → Under The Hood → Web Content → Customize Fonts...)

Before:
font-settings.png
font-settings.png (25.25 KiB) Viewed 3606 times


After (fixed):
font-settings-fixed.png
font-settings-fixed.png (24.9 KiB) Viewed 3606 times


Hope this helps! Thanks Mattias! :bow:

This is still a bug, as it seems to affect many people, doesn't work with the default settings, and doesn't do what it's expected to etc. I think the bug reports kind of bear this out? I'd have to read over the bug report again to say more clearly...
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Re: 終り

Postby phreadom » Fri 09.09.2011 11:34 pm

RAAAAAAAAAAGE!!! :evil: :evil: :evil:

http://code.google.com/p/chromium/issues/detail?id=2685

"moving non-essential bugs to m16. please move back if you think this is an error."

That's almost 3 years now this keeps just getting punted down the road. (Obviously posting this from FireFox.) :sweatdrop:
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Re: 終り

Postby JaySee » Sat 09.10.2011 5:40 am

For what it's worth, I use google chrome and for me 終 in the first post looks like it does in phreadom's firefox screenshot (meiryo though). I don't know if I'm doing something right (I've never messed with any of google chrome's settings, not really a computer expert :P ), but I've never had any problems with kanji showing up improperly. Maybe it's because I'm using a MacBook?
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Re: 終り

Postby Hyperworm » Sat 09.10.2011 10:31 am

phreadom's Jun 20 workaround has been working reasonably well for me, but some sites still aren't fixed even with that, including the read.crx 2ch browsing extension and the chromium issue tracker itself.

This needs to be fixed properly. :|
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