Stroke order/direction on the dakuten and handakuten?

Japanese, general discussion on the language
Post Reply
User avatar
phreadom
Site Admin
Posts: 1762
Joined: Sun 01.29.2006 8:43 pm
Native language: U.S. English (米語)
Gender: Male
Location: Michigan, USA
Contact:

Stroke order/direction on the dakuten and handakuten?

Post by phreadom » Thu 07.14.2011 5:57 am

I wanted to get down to practicing writing the kana on paper, but I've been having a little trouble finding solid info on the dakuten and handakuten specifically... (the little dashes and circle that make into and etc)

It seems the dakuten are written top to bottom, left to right... but how about the handakuten? clockwise? from top or bottom? does it really matter?

I just want to try to make sure I'm doing it correctly so that I don't have to unlearn bad habits later. :)

教えてください :bow:
猿も木から落ちる

User avatar
Ranja
Posts: 125
Joined: Wed 11.05.2008 5:40 am
Native language: Japanese

Re: Stroke order/direction on the dakuten and handakuten?

Post by Ranja » Thu 07.14.2011 8:00 am

http://detail.chiebukuro.yahoo.co.jp/qa ... 1425024989

I heard Portuguese missionaries started to use handakuten ゚ in Japan, so it might be that they used to write it like o in the alphabet.

User avatar
micahcowan
Posts: 249
Joined: Fri 08.13.2010 2:08 pm
Native language: US English/米語
Location: California, USA
Contact:

Re: Stroke order/direction on the dakuten and handakuten?

Post by micahcowan » Thu 07.14.2011 3:11 pm

でも、その記事によると、アルファベットの o 文字はたいてい上から反時計回りでしょう、だけど私なら、いつもその字を上から時計回りです。 この同じようにも半濁点を書くんです。 だから o も人によるんでしょうね。

だけど、 アメリカの教科書では、 ほとんど上から時計回りだと思います。 じゃあ、 カーセィヴじゃない時なら、 ね。

User avatar
phreadom
Site Admin
Posts: 1762
Joined: Sun 01.29.2006 8:43 pm
Native language: U.S. English (米語)
Gender: Male
Location: Michigan, USA
Contact:

Re: Stroke order/direction on the dakuten and handakuten?

Post by phreadom » Fri 07.15.2011 2:23 am

So if I'm reading that correctly, the handakuten is generally clockwise, but doesn't really matter where you start it? :)

I think that gives me enough info to start practicing writing my kana. :) I want to get the stroke orders down and at least some semblance of legibility before I dig into the Heisig lessons Dustin told me about, since he said to write out the answers for each one to practice and really make sure you know the answer etc. Plus it gives you a nice notebook full of your progress so you can see how far you've come over time. :D

Plus it seems a little silly to try learning how to write kanji before I even know for sure how to write a single kana. ;)
猿も木から落ちる

User avatar
Ranja
Posts: 125
Joined: Wed 11.05.2008 5:40 am
Native language: Japanese

Re: Stroke order/direction on the dakuten and handakuten?

Post by Ranja » Sun 07.17.2011 12:10 am

micahcowan wrote:でも、その記事によると、アルファベットの o 文字はたいてい上から反時計回りでしょう、だけど私なら、いつもその字を上から時計回りです。 この同じようにも半濁点を書くんです。 だから o も人によるんでしょうね。

だけど、 アメリカの教科書では、 ほとんど上から時計回りだと思います。 じゃあ、 カーセィヴじゃない時なら、 ね。
it might be that they used to write it like o in the alphabet. → かれらアルファベットの「o」のように(i.e. counter-clockwise)に書いていたかもしれませんね。
Perhaps my English expression was misleading. :wall:

User avatar
micahcowan
Posts: 249
Joined: Fri 08.13.2010 2:08 pm
Native language: US English/米語
Location: California, USA
Contact:

Re: Stroke order/direction on the dakuten and handakuten?

Post by micahcowan » Mon 07.18.2011 1:24 pm

Ranja wrote:it might be that they used to write it like o in the alphabet. → かれらアルファベットの「o」のように(i.e. counter-clockwise)に書いていたかもしれませんね。
Perhaps my English expression was misleading. :wall:
Actually, I wasn't reacting to what you'd written, but what marcosismo said in the article you linked. If I'm reading right, he's claiming that "o" is usually written counter-clockwise, but my experience doesn't agree with this (at least, in America, for printed "o", as opposed to cursive "o", which might be said to be counter-clockwise, sort of).

User avatar
Ranja
Posts: 125
Joined: Wed 11.05.2008 5:40 am
Native language: Japanese

Re: Stroke order/direction on the dakuten and handakuten?

Post by Ranja » Tue 07.19.2011 4:57 am

micahcowan wrote:
Ranja wrote:it might be that they used to write it like o in the alphabet. → かれらアルファベットの「o」のように(i.e. counter-clockwise)に書いていたかもしれませんね。
Perhaps my English expression was misleading. :wall:
Actually, I wasn't reacting to what you'd written, but what marcosismo said in the article you linked. If I'm reading right, he's claiming that "o" is usually written counter-clockwise, but my experience doesn't agree with this (at least, in America, for printed "o", as opposed to cursive "o", which might be said to be counter-clockwise, sort of).
I see.
アルファベットの「o」は筆記体も活字体もcounter-clockwiseで書くものだと思っていました。
marcosismo氏の文章もわかりにくいですね。He's claiming that the alphabet o is written counter-clockwise, but handakuten is written clockwise, I think.

LordOfTheFlies
Posts: 455
Joined: Sun 05.07.2006 9:43 am
Native language: Swedish

Re: Stroke order/direction on the dakuten and handakuten?

Post by LordOfTheFlies » Tue 07.19.2011 11:53 pm

I always write O counter-clockwise and that's how it was taught in school as far as I can remember. I can't recall ever hearing or seeing someone writing it any other way to be honest. Are you sure this person knows what he's talking about?

User avatar
micahcowan
Posts: 249
Joined: Fri 08.13.2010 2:08 pm
Native language: US English/米語
Location: California, USA
Contact:

Re: Stroke order/direction on the dakuten and handakuten?

Post by micahcowan » Wed 07.20.2011 2:24 am

LordOfTheFlies wrote:I always write O counter-clockwise and that's how it was taught in school as far as I can remember. I can't recall ever hearing or seeing someone writing it any other way to be honest. Are you sure this person knows what he's talking about?
Did you mean "clockwise" rather than "counter-clockwise" here? If not, then it would seem that you're in agreement with the fellow, so I wouldn't understand why you'd question him. If yes, then your experience would seem to match mine. :)

LordOfTheFlies
Posts: 455
Joined: Sun 05.07.2006 9:43 am
Native language: Swedish

Re: Stroke order/direction on the dakuten and handakuten?

Post by LordOfTheFlies » Wed 07.20.2011 5:31 am

micahcowan wrote:
LordOfTheFlies wrote:I always write O counter-clockwise and that's how it was taught in school as far as I can remember. I can't recall ever hearing or seeing someone writing it any other way to be honest. Are you sure this person knows what he's talking about?
Did you mean "clockwise" rather than "counter-clockwise" here? If not, then it would seem that you're in agreement with the fellow, so I wouldn't understand why you'd question him. If yes, then your experience would seem to match mine. :)
Oh, no... I meant counter-clockwise. From the top to the left, around. I'm sorry, it was really late so I must have misread it somehow ^^

User avatar
micahcowan
Posts: 249
Joined: Fri 08.13.2010 2:08 pm
Native language: US English/米語
Location: California, USA
Contact:

Re: Stroke order/direction on the dakuten and handakuten?

Post by micahcowan » Wed 07.20.2011 1:13 pm

You know what... I just tested my "finger memory" by actually writing out a few words, and it looks like I'm completely wrong about how even I do it (I do indeed do it 反時計回り). I'm retarded. :blush:

User avatar
phreadom
Site Admin
Posts: 1762
Joined: Sun 01.29.2006 8:43 pm
Native language: U.S. English (米語)
Gender: Male
Location: Michigan, USA
Contact:

Re: Stroke order/direction on the dakuten and handakuten?

Post by phreadom » Wed 07.20.2011 7:42 pm

micahcowan wrote:You know what... I just tested my "finger memory" by actually writing out a few words, and it looks like I'm completely wrong about how even I do it (I do indeed do it 反時計回り). I'm retarded. :blush:
Now that you mention it, I tried it myself and I also write it 反時計回り. So... :think:
猿も木から落ちる

User avatar
micahcowan
Posts: 249
Joined: Fri 08.13.2010 2:08 pm
Native language: US English/米語
Location: California, USA
Contact:

Re: Stroke order/direction on the dakuten and handakuten?

Post by micahcowan » Thu 07.21.2011 6:12 pm

phreadom wrote:
micahcowan wrote:You know what... I just tested my "finger memory" by actually writing out a few words, and it looks like I'm completely wrong about how even I do it (I do indeed do it 反時計回り). I'm retarded. :blush:
Now that you mention it, I tried it myself and I also write it 反時計回り. So... :think:
Yeah, but I don't believe you told us otherwise. I don't think you mentioned how you usually draw your o's... or your 半濁点.

Post Reply